First time getting custom feed milled

[Limomike]

What does good quality hay run there? It would probably cheaper than high dollar feed? Correct?

My exact sentiments. Yes, I do feed my cattle feed, but mainly rely on the good hay, and stockpiled forages I have around here. I keep the feed to a minimum.

[ny_grass]

What does good quality hay run there? It would probably cheaper than high dollar feed? Correct?

I'm less than a month from running out of the hay we made off my property (the stuff that's 6.5% protein). I have 500 bales reserved with a local guy. I don't expect it'll be any better. Off my property, I pay $1.25. For the other stuff. I'll pay $2/bale. I've seen hay advertised for as much as $4/bale.

It's funny, this post everyone seems to be steering me toward getting them hay and forgoing the feed.

I wanted them to be all grass-fed but their condition was so poor that people thought grain was necessary. Perhaps, after I go through this next 1000lbs of feed, I'll see how they look. If they're better, then I might switch them to better hay.

Here are the numbers:

Poor quality hay with feed:
10 bales/day = $20
50 lbs feed/day = $7
~$27/day

High quality hay at $3/bale (with no feed):
10 bales/day = $30

[HerefordSire]

You should be able to buy 1,000 pound round bales around there somewhere instead of a square. It should be 50% less money that you are paying. If it isn't keep doing what you are doing @ the $27....you may be able to get it down to $20 per day and save a couple of hundred per month.

[kenny thomas]

Just a thought, but isn't 10 bales a day a lot of hay for 6 cows and 4 calves.
If the hay weighs even 50lb per bale that is 50lb per head, even for the calves. I did not think they could even eat that much.
With good quality hay you should be able to get by on 20+ lb per mature head. 20lbX6 cows=120lb or 2 1/2 bales.
400 lb calves should have 8-9lb per day. even at 10, 4calves x10lb=40lbs or less than 1 bale.
Total of 3 1/2 bales per day. Even if the cows are a little bit over 1000lb you still should not need 10 bales per day.

[HerefordSire]

Just a thought, but isn't 10 bales a day a lot of hay for 6 cows and 4 calves.
If the hay weighs even 50lb per bale that is 50lb per head, even for the calves. I did not think they could even eat that much.
With good quality hay you should be able to get by on 20+ lb per mature head. 20lbX6 cows=120lb or 2 1/2 bales.
400 lb calves should have 8-9lb per day. even at 10, 4calves x10lb=40lbs or less than 1 bale.
Total of 3 1/2 bales per day. Even if the cows are a little bit over 1000lb you still should not need 10 bales per day.

In theory you are correct. But...if he has no feed/hay left over each day, then blame it on poor quality...or maybe waste?

[tom4018]

I guess its up to you whether you want to spend your money on that or not.

What do you mean? Spend my "money on that or not" as opposed to what? Do you recommend another, simplier, cheaper formula?
This one comes to $260/ton (that's probably not cheap but it's the cheapest around here - that I know of at least).

Thanks

At last week's prices that mix would be $210 a ton here. Here is what the OSU calculator says:



NUTRIENT COMPOSITION REQUIREMENT
AS FED DRY NRC STATUS
NEm Megcal/CWT. 84.13 95.20 +
NEg Megcal/CWT. 55.25 62.51 +
TDN % 77.18 87.33 +
Fat 3.71 4.20 +
Crude Fiber 2.94 3.33 +
ADF 4.73 5.35
NDF 11.05 12.51
eNDF 23.62 26.72
Crude Protein % 13.15 14.88 20.07 DEFICIENT
Potassium % 0.69 0.78 0.65 ADEQUATE
Calcium % 1.07 1.21 1.01 ADEQUATE
Phosphorus % 0.33 0.37 0.43 DEFICIENT
Magnesium % 0.15 0.17 0.1 ADEQUATE
Sulfur % 0.19 0.21 0.1 EXCESSIVE
Cobalt ppm 0.12 0.13 0.1 EXCESSIVE
Copper ppm 13.43 15.2 8 EXCESSIVE
Iron ppm 85.53 96.8 50 ADEQUATE
Manganese ppm 19.15 21.7 40 ADEQUATE
Selenium ppm 0.16 0.18 0.2 ADEQUATE
Zinc ppm 21.51 24.3 30 ADEQUATE

[Bez+]

[i]

It's funny, this post everyone seems to be steering me toward getting them hay and forgoing the feed.

I wanted them to be all grass-fed but their condition was so poor that people thought grain was necessary.

I believe you are the person who posted pics of very hungry cows with the fairly new pole barn with a tin (green?) roof and some plank walled pens some time back.

If you are not then my apologies.

If you are - read on.

In fact you are getting advice that is valuable if you have cows that are in good condition.

Yours are / were not.

Your animals while not totally starved out - were in very bad shape - making your situation far different from what many here may realize.

Is the feed you bought expensive?

Yes.

Is the feed you bought necessary?

In my opinion yes.

Is it more expensive to bring a cow back than keep her in decent shape?

Yes.

Look - people talk money because that is what cows are supposed to do - make you money.

In this case money is not the answer.

Bringing them back to decent condition and out of the boney state they were in is the important job.

Keep doing what you are doing.

You put them in that condition and now you need spend the money to bring them back.

If it was summer time the grass would be the best - it is winter - lousy hay and decent grain will give you conditioning.

Ignore any negativity here on the cost and continue to do the right thing - or as I once stated - get rid of the cows.

Bez+

[Brute 23]

A bunch of haters on here... first they are too skinny... now you are spending too much on feed. You better get on their feed program if you want to fit in around here.

[dun]

Like Bez said, feed the grain and get them back into condition

[angus9259]

Like Bez said, feed the grain and get them back into condition

Grain will be necessary to get a cow back into condition.

That said, it is expensive to put condition on a cow even while grain is probably the cheapest way to do it.

Wondering this . . . would you be money ahead to start over? I just took a poor doing cow to the sale barn and got $450. Bred commercial cows in decent condition are going about $600-700.

If this is a business - money may not be the answer, but it's always the point. Grain will be the cheapest way to get these cows back in shape but may still not be the best financial decision - unless it is the best financial decision.

[Brandonm22]

I remember the cows. Bez and Dun are both right. He has to feed grain and he needs to keep the soybean meal. I recommended selling the cows, watching TV this winter, and buying cows in good condition in the Spring. Since he decided to keep them, for the cows to survive this winter and come out of it in better condition than they went into it (BCS 2) it is going to cost some money.......though a lot less money than losing the investment and/or having to lawyer up in response to a Humane Society complaint.

[KMacGinley]

Here's an alternative: Feed that ration to your calves. Start them slow. Say 4 lbs /day and add 2 lbs. / week. Vaccinate them for overeating etc. and IBR, BVD PI3

Feed your cows corn and soybean meal. Corn... 15 lbs + / day until back in shape with 2lbs of bean meal/ head on top of it. This should save you money and get the job done. The corn doesn't even have to be cracked.

Oh and feed your hay essentially free choice like you have been. Oh and give them a good free choice loose mineral. Not a block.

[TexasBred]

What does good quality hay run there? It would probably cheaper than high dollar feed? Correct?

I'm less than a month from running out of the hay we made off my property (the stuff that's 6.5% protein). I have 500 bales reserved with a local guy. I don't expect it'll be any better. Off my property, I pay $1.25. For the other stuff. I'll pay $2/bale. I've seen hay advertised for as much as $4/bale.

It's funny, this post everyone seems to be steering me toward getting them hay and forgoing the feed.

I wanted them to be all grass-fed but their condition was so poor that people thought grain was necessary. Perhaps, after I go through this next 1000lbs of feed, I'll see how they look. If they're better, then I might switch them to better hay.

Here are the numbers:

Poor quality hay with feed:
10 bales/day = $20
50 lbs feed/day = $7
~$27/day

High quality hay at $3/bale (with no feed):
10 bales/day = $30

I assume you gave the nutritionist all the details about your cattle, your poor quality hay etc, so by all means do what he recommended, otherwise you wasted your time and his. Keep in mind also that hay does not replace grain nor does grain replace hay. In your situation you need both. The hay is little more than filler so the additional protein will help, as well as the high energy of the feed he formulated for you. As for the various trace minerals I don't really see anything I'd consider "excessive" in them. 13-15 ppm copper is "sheep feed levels" so definitely nothing to worry about. Give the cattle the grainand make the hay available free choice. You'll see the payoff with better conditioned cattle, higher milk production for any that are nursing calves and quicker breedbacks.

Best Wishes.

[hillsdown]

I agree with Bez ,Dun TB etc. If you told your nutritionist everything , and even better if he/she came out to see your cattle and operation and had all feed testes. YES, do as they say that is what they are there for. As has been posted countless times if you are unsure ,especially if your cows are in poor condition consult a nutritionist and consult a vet to get your cattle where they should be.

Good luck with them I hope you can get them back into condition without costing you too much $$'s..

[Workinonit Farm]

You're on the right track.

Howabout a few 'after' pics in a few months?

Kudos to you for taking advice given, seeking out a nutritionist and testing the hay. You're getting a good education.

Katherine