What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by Ebenezer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:34 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:07 am
Libido and serving capacity testing was briefly embraced by a small percentage of seed stock producers back in the eighties. In theory a great concept, in reality ugly for the recipients. Highly doubtful the practice would be acceptable in today's animal rights climate.
But they are still real issues. Great bulls can be unfit enough to breed or have little interest. I do not fully understand that but it happens. SC helps define servicing capacity but libido is unfortunately a watch and see issue.



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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:42 pm

Ebenezer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:34 pm
76 Bar wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:07 am
Libido and serving capacity testing was briefly embraced by a small percentage of seed stock producers back in the eighties. In theory a great concept, in reality ugly for the recipients. Highly doubtful the practice would be acceptable in today's animal rights climate.
But they are still real issues. Great bulls can be unfit enough to breed or have little interest. I do not fully understand that but it happens. SC helps define servicing capacity but libido is unfortunately a watch and see issue.
And the ones that like to do their business in the dark further compound the issue.
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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by 76 Bar » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:51 pm

But they are still real issues. Great bulls can be unfit enough to breed or have little interest. I do not fully understand that but it happens. SC helps define servicing capacity but libido is unfortunately a watch and see issue.
Agree. Point was driven home eons ago when a yearling bull who'd passed a rigorous BSE thought humping the heads of his cows was his bona fide duty. :roll:

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by 76 Bar » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:55 pm

And the ones that like to do their business in the dark further compound the issue.
Thankfully have never encountered such slackers.

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by Ebenezer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:18 pm

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:42 pm
Ebenezer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:34 pm
76 Bar wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:07 am
Libido and serving capacity testing was briefly embraced by a small percentage of seed stock producers back in the eighties. In theory a great concept, in reality ugly for the recipients. Highly doubtful the practice would be acceptable in today's animal rights climate.
But they are still real issues. Great bulls can be unfit enough to breed or have little interest. I do not fully understand that but it happens. SC helps define servicing capacity but libido is unfortunately a watch and see issue.
And the ones that like to do their business in the dark further compound the issue.
We use flashlights. I guess in KY with bad sale barns, starving cows, bad Vets, small multi-color calves, sale barn bulls, cut and pasters, over feeders and such you might want to use a kerosene lantern to fit in the backwards status of all but two cattle producers there.

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by Brookhill Angus » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:35 pm

jscunn wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:59 am
Brookhill,
What I was trying to show you is that lots of other places do a proper BSE. You might not understand when you talk about how great your program does it, that you always insert a comment that pushes other people down while you try to elevate yourself. Comments like other vets don't do it the way mine does. That to you is I am trying to give you the best bull I can, but what comes out is other people are cutting corners and trying to screw you. Listen carefully, if you have to put people down to elevate yourself then you are doing it wrong. You have a lot of positives going on at your place, focus on those without pushing others down.

BTW, I have had a bull fail a BSE at the North Alabama bull test, because the vet there said he would develop screw claw (December 2014). I took him to my vet, who watched him walk for 20 minutes, and said 0 chance. I said would you write a letter? He did, probably created a bit of a hornets nest but short version is, I kept the bull, bred him to cows and finally shipped him last fall for a broken penis, he was sound, agile, and perfect except he could not breed cows anymore.

To expand a bit they said he would have screw claw because the outside claw was smaller than the inside claw, shape was fine. By the time he was two only I could tell the outside claw was smaller, by the time he was three I couldn't tell.

So just because my vet passed a bull someone else failed, that doesn't mean he did a be nice job in fact he did a more thorough one.
I get where you are coming from, and you made some good points.

Where I'm coming from, and perhaps I'm too abrasive, is that I want to make sure that I'm not passing the buck. I realize that if a bull doesn't perform, and hence a producer's cows and heifers don't settle, that the economic hit is real. You can't go back and capture that lost time, and money spent on open cows.

The idea of a smack on the rear, and saying "he's fine" when he REALLY isn't fine, is what I'm trying to avoid.

Call it what you want, but I do my best, as I'm sure you do, to make certain that when someone gets a bull from us, he is in the best shape I can deliver him, and that he is ready to work and get the job done.

Imagine buying a new tractor and it breaks down a week after you buy it, right ahead of hay season, then you find out that the dealer knew it would break down. That is what I avoid at all costs. As I am sure you do as well.
"When someone tells you it can't be done, it's more a reflection of their limitations, not yours"

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:39 pm

Or an almost new bush hog that breaks under normal use for no good reason.
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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by Brookhill Angus » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:01 pm

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:39 pm
Or an almost new bush hog that breaks under normal use for no good reason.
I've already addressed that on Instagram with Woods. They gave me a b.s. reply, and said that I could call customer service for help, and that they were sorry for my inconvenience. They had a PRIME opportunity to make good on their product and they did a FACE FLOP in front of a lot of people. Social media is brutal for companies that don't address customer's concerns well.

I'm sorry for Woods Equipment that before long, I will trade it in and buy a John Deere mower, where they send someone out ASAP to fix the problem and get me back on my way, and almost always under warranty.
"When someone tells you it can't be done, it's more a reflection of their limitations, not yours"

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by jscunn » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:22 pm

I think it is great you do parentage, dna brookhill..I think all premium outfits should do that.

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by Brookhill Angus » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:34 pm

jscunn wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:22 pm
I think it is great you do parentage, dna brookhill..I think all premium outfits should do that.
Thank you.

I myself would not want to buy a bull then find out later when I'm registering calves that I have something different than what I expected.

Accidents happen, I know, but that test is not super expensive, in fact, it's pretty cheap insurance.
"When someone tells you it can't be done, it's more a reflection of their limitations, not yours"

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by Nesikep » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:06 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:51 pm
But they are still real issues. Great bulls can be unfit enough to breed or have little interest. I do not fully understand that but it happens. SC helps define servicing capacity but libido is unfortunately a watch and see issue.
Agree. Point was driven home eons ago when a yearling bull who'd passed a rigorous BSE thought humping the heads of his cows was his bona fide duty. :roll:
I had one and which end he mounted had about a 25% chance of being the right one.. mounting from either side, the front, the back,... eventually he'd get it right.

I find in hot weather they usually breed at daybreak or so... I do my breeding checks after breakfast, usually see the cow with the pump handle tail.. Usually see the bull hanging around enough the evening before too.
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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by 76 Bar » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:56 pm

you might want to use a kerosene lantern
Only if ya know how to properly manicure the wick. Bet dimes to donuts that was lost on more than a few. ;-)

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:11 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:55 pm
And the ones that like to do their business in the dark further compound the issue.
Thankfully have never encountered such slackers.
Your bulls don't work the night shift?
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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by 76 Bar » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:38 pm

Your bulls don't work the night shift?
Dunno...don't trim the wicks and wash the chimneys till the following morn.

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Re: What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:12 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:38 pm
Your bulls don't work the night shift?
Dunno...don't trim the wicks and wash the chimneys till the following morn.
Lol
Making Cattle Today Great Again!
Sometimes you do have to throw out the babies with the bath water.

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