Fill in bull

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JCcattle
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Fill in bull

Post by JCcattle » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:31 pm

So we bought 2 yearling bulls this spring. Before they were delivered one (died) and the breeder brot us this one instead. Said we could use it this summer and keep it or use the $$ we spent on the dead bull for credit next springs sale. What do you think of this bull? He's calm, a very driven breeder, but on the small side. His mother supposedly a 12 year old cow. Wish we could see how his calves do before we decide. What are your thoughts on how he looks?
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Re: Fill in bull

Post by Ebenezer » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm

I'd say he was postlegged from the pictures. I'd consider him for terminal use only.

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by Son of Butch » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:39 pm

JCcattle wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:31 pm
So we bought 2 yearling bulls this spring.
Before they were delivered one (died) and the breeder brought us this one instead.
Image
What did you buy? He looks like a crossbred. What is he? Can you get a purebred next year?
If so, that would be my vote.

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by JCcattle » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:29 pm

Ebenezer wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm
I'd say he was postlegged from the pictures. I'd consider him for terminal use only.
Yeah. He looks like that in real life. Glad you mentioned it cuz I was wondering about his straight legs. That's not good for longevity?

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by JCcattle » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:32 pm

Son of Butch wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:39 pm
JCcattle wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:31 pm
So we bought 2 yearling bulls this spring.
Before they were delivered one (died) and the breeder brought us this one instead.
Image
What did you buy? He looks like a crossbred. What is he? Can you get a purebred next year?
If so, that would be my vote.
The one we bought was a percentage Simmental and I'm not sure how much. This guy is definitely crossbred. Angus and Simm, not sure how much of each. Yeah if he doesn't get many "likes" we will probably try our hand at picking one again. Hopefully we not sorry!

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by ALACOWMAN » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:01 pm

Looking at him he looks like he's heavily Simmental influenced...like black simm.. If you get any ""likes" take em with a grain of salt..
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Re: Fill in bull

Post by JCcattle » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:58 pm

ALACOWMAN wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:01 pm
Looking at him he looks like he's heavily Simmental influenced...like black simm.. If you get any ""likes" take em with a grain of salt..
He's at least half Simm. His sire fullblood Simmental, same sire as the first one we wanted. No idea what breeding his dam is could be full Simm for all we know. I'd rather have a bull I know about actually. This guy will probably be returned. Lol ok got my salt shaker ready just in case

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:59 am

Return to sender...
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Re: Fill in bull

Post by Ebenezer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:18 am

JCcattle wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:29 pm
Ebenezer wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm
I'd say he was postlegged from the pictures. I'd consider him for terminal use only.
Yeah. He looks like that in real life. Glad you mentioned it cuz I was wondering about his straight legs. That's not good for longevity?
Straight legs put a lot of pressure on the joints. Watch him walk from the side. The rear hoof should step in or very near the last print that the front hoof made. I do not think this bull can do that. You also see it in bulls that have been selected and skewed to appear longer bodied. Actually the skeleton is shifted and the joints are at different angles. You will see them track way off of normal and have more of a choppy walk. They and some other bulls will look like all movement comes from the hip for an awkward whole stiff leg swing type walk. Selection changes cattle with or without EPDs. An animal with proper stride and good hoof angles is the target especially for longevity.

Also, just a mention while rambling, the shoulders are straight. I'd expect some calving issues from him if he carries much birthweight.

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by JCcattle » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:33 am

Ebenezer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:18 am
JCcattle wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:29 pm
Ebenezer wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:45 pm
I'd say he was postlegged from the pictures. I'd consider him for terminal use only.
Yeah. He looks like that in real life. Glad you mentioned it cuz I was wondering about his straight legs. That's not good for longevity?
Straight legs put a lot of pressure on the joints. Watch him walk from the side. The rear hoof should step in or very near the last print that the front hoof made. I do not think this bull can do that. You also see it in bulls that have been selected and skewed to appear longer bodied. Actually the skeleton is shifted and the joints are at different angles. You will see them track way off of normal and have more of a choppy walk. They and some other bulls will look like all movement comes from the hip for an awkward whole stiff leg swing type walk. Selection changes cattle with or without EPDs. An animal with proper stride and good hoof angles is the target especially for longevity.

Also, just a mention while rambling, the shoulders are straight. I'd expect some calving issues from him if he carries much birthweight.
I really appreciate that info. Gonna make sure we watch for that when we shop bulls. I don't think we would have picked this guy out ever, just cuz he doesn't look right but I wouldn't have been able to say what was wrong. And the breeder thought he'd be fine with heifers so that's where he was! 😳 I hope were not in for it when they calve 😣

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by JCcattle » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:34 am

Would anyone have a picture of a bull with calving ease shoulders?

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by Bigfoot » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:59 pm

I’ve heard of a helper bull, but not a fill in.
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Re: Fill in bull

Post by Boot Jack Bulls » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:56 pm

JCcattle wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:34 am
Would anyone have a picture of a bull with calving ease shoulders?
I can't get pictures to post, but in words here is what I look for in a front end on ALL of my bulls:
1. Shape-Shoulders should lay in smooth and flat. I don't want them to bulge out from the neck or rib too far. Should not be able to see the shoulders when viewing a bull from behind. I want long muscle on the shoulder that carries well down on the fore arm.
2. Angle- Shoulders should be of a correct angle. Not steep or rafter topped. A steep shoulder is often easily recognizable by a short-strided front end movement and too steep of heels on the hoof.
3. Direction-Shoulders should, again lay in flat along the sides of the animal. Easily assessed by looking at the animals feet. When standing square or on the move, if the toes point out, the animal will generally be too open in the front of his shoulders. Conversely, if they point inward, the animal will likely display outward pointing elbows.

Learn to look beyond the muscle and fat. Envision the bone structure under all of it, and compare it to the visual ques (stride, angles, feet) you can see.
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Re: Fill in bull

Post by JCcattle » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:20 pm

Thanks for that awesome info Boot Jack. We have a lot to learn!!

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Re: Fill in bull

Post by JCcattle » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:22 pm

Bigfoot wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:59 pm
I’ve heard of a helper bull, but not a fill in.
Made you look didn't it :) lol looking at it later I wasn't sure what I meant either but thot hey I'm leaving it. I should have called it substitute bull instead 💁🏼‍♀️

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