Fescue

Discuss grasses and how to grow and harvest them.
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Nesikep
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Re: Fescue

Post by Nesikep » Mon May 27, 2019 8:56 pm

Here's Multimin 90 as listed on Valley vet
Multimin 90 is a supplemental source of zinc, manganese, selenium and copper for cattle. Each ml of Multimin 90 is a chelated source of 60 mg zinc, 10 mg manganese, 5 mg selenium and 15 mg copper. Multimin 90 should be administered to cattle by SQ injection. The recommended dosage is 1 ml per 100 lbs body weight for calves up to 1 year of age; 1 ml per 150 lbs for cattle 1-2 years of age; and 1 ml per 200 lbs for cattle over 2 years of age. Frequency of administration may vary to suit management program. Zinc, manganese, selenium and copper.

So doing some math, a 1000 lb cow needs 5 cc, thus gets 65mg of copper (I'm going to take copper as an example)
I like my mineral to be 2500mg/kg copper, 1kg is 35 oz, so a cow here should be getting 2500/35 * 4oz/day = 285mg per cow per day.
It's quite clear that Multimin 90 is no replacement for my mineral program.

I sometimes wonder if the additional price of all-chelated minerals is worth it, especially on the more common things.. Copper sulfate is quite bio-available, and it's cheap in sulfate form... same goes for Zinc, Magnesium and Cobalt. I'd certainly consider a chelated form of Selenium for example.. at 100mg/kg in the feed the additional price wouldn't be as noticed on a small quantity.


Ideally you should use a liver biopsy, but a blood test can do too.. I'd recommend pulling blood from a heavy milking cow just before bull turnout, that's her most stressed time and when you'll see the deficiencies clearly anyhow. I did it once, cost $100 and I'm glad I did!


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Re: Fescue

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 27, 2019 9:19 pm

I would not pay a fleeting moment of consideration to substituting multimin for a free choice mineral program.

It cost me too much to not get every cow bred in a 2 month window. I breed about 20 cows a year. They are all bred AI. To get them to recover from partum, start cycling and conceive, takes a good mineral program. Copper, selenium, and the other minerals are essential for reproduction.

If I don't get every cow bred, I lose an opportunity to sell a breeding yearling bull or bred heifer.

Nesikep. You make a point on the chelated compounds. The mineral elements do not have to be chelated. Sulfates are readily bioavailable. You just have to be sure that they are in a compound that the cow can Uptake the mineral element.
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Re: Fescue

Post by kenny thomas » Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 pm

If you don't mind me asking what do you spend on mineral per year on 20 cows? I'm trying to get a handle on cost per cow? Your grazing looks about like mine except I stockpile for the winter and they graze most of the winter.
How much does their intake change in the winter?
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Re: Fescue

Post by snoopdog » Mon May 27, 2019 9:31 pm

Image I used to stress over it, no more.
Being poor is the most expensive thing there is

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Re: Fescue

Post by True Grit Farms » Mon May 27, 2019 9:35 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:19 pm
I would not pay a fleeting moment of consideration to substituting multimin for a free choice mineral program.

It cost me too much to not get every cow bred in a 2 month window. I breed about 20 cows a year. They are all bred AI. To get them to recover from partum, start cycling and conceive, takes a good mineral program. Copper, selenium, and the other minerals are essential for reproduction.

If I don't get every cow bred, I lose an opportunity to sell a breeding yearling bull or bred heifer.

Nesikep. You make a point on the chelated compounds. The mineral elements do not have to be chelated. Sulfates are readily bioavailable. You just have to be sure that they are in a compound that the cow can Uptake the mineral element.
Some cattle don't need to be propped up with minerals and feed to deliver a calf every year. You don't know what your talking about and just repeating nonsense you hear. We use free choice minerals year round and MultiMin 90 in our management. But a lot of my neighbors don't and their cows produce a calf every 12 months. Culling can fix your reproductive problems, along with a host of other issues.
If MultiMin 90 can render some vaccines usless, why can't free choice minerals do the same?
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Fescue

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 27, 2019 9:36 pm

kenny thomas wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 pm
If you don't mind me asking what do you spend on mineral per year on 20 cows? I'm trying to get a handle on cost per cow? Your grazing looks about like mine except I stockpile for the winter and they graze most of the winter.
How much does their intake change in the winter?
I don't mind. It will take me some time to go through my 2018 taxes. I will post it when I do the math.

I have to say my grazing is excellent. I just walked out this evening with the dogs and looked at every cow. This may be the fattest I have ever had them. Even the ones that have a tendency to stay lean are getting fat. It is all grass fat. Right now, they are not consuming much mineral. In fact, the consumption is not noticeable. During the hay feeding season, they consume a considerable amount.
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Re: Fescue

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 27, 2019 9:38 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:35 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:19 pm
I would not pay a fleeting moment of consideration to substituting multimin for a free choice mineral program.

It cost me too much to not get every cow bred in a 2 month window. I breed about 20 cows a year. They are all bred AI. To get them to recover from partum, start cycling and conceive, takes a good mineral program. Copper, selenium, and the other minerals are essential for reproduction.

If I don't get every cow bred, I lose an opportunity to sell a breeding yearling bull or bred heifer.

Nesikep. You make a point on the chelated compounds. The mineral elements do not have to be chelated. Sulfates are readily bioavailable. You just have to be sure that they are in a compound that the cow can Uptake the mineral element.
Some cattle don't need to be propped up with minerals and feed to deliver a calf every year. You don't know what your talking about and just repeating nonsense you hear. We use free choice minerals year round and MultiMin 90 in our management. But a lot of my neighbors don't and their cows produce a calf every 12 months. Culling can fix your reproductive problems, along with a host of other issues.
If MultiMin 90 can render some vaccines usless, why can't free choice minerals do the same?
Grit. It is total nonsense to suggest replacing a free choice mineral program by using an injectable mineral compound like multimin. I am not going to waste my time.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

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Re: Fescue

Post by True Grit Farms » Mon May 27, 2019 9:53 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:38 pm
True Grit Farms wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:35 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:19 pm
I would not pay a fleeting moment of consideration to substituting multimin for a free choice mineral program.

It cost me too much to not get every cow bred in a 2 month window. I breed about 20 cows a year. They are all bred AI. To get them to recover from partum, start cycling and conceive, takes a good mineral program. Copper, selenium, and the other minerals are essential for reproduction.

If I don't get every cow bred, I lose an opportunity to sell a breeding yearling bull or bred heifer.

Nesikep. You make a point on the chelated compounds. The mineral elements do not have to be chelated. Sulfates are readily bioavailable. You just have to be sure that they are in a compound that the cow can Uptake the mineral element.
Some cattle don't need to be propped up with minerals and feed to deliver a calf every year. You don't know what your talking about and just repeating nonsense you hear. We use free choice minerals year round and MultiMin 90 in our management. But a lot of my neighbors don't and their cows produce a calf every 12 months. Culling can fix your reproductive problems, along with a host of other issues.
If MultiMin 90 can render some vaccines usless, why can't free choice minerals do the same?
Grit. It is total nonsense to suggest replacing a free choice mineral program by using an injectable mineral compound like multimin. I am not going to waste my time.
How do you know your cows need free choice minerals and can't make it on a couple of MultiMin shots per year? Or maybe no mineral at all? Your speculating and spouting off like it's a fact. But a lot of folks have no mineral program and have no problems. Don't believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Fescue

Post by jehosofat » Mon May 27, 2019 9:55 pm

Hook2.0 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:45 pm
Of course not, why entertain an opinion different from your own.
Cause he's got 20 cows and knows ever damm thing.

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Re: Fescue

Post by True Grit Farms » Mon May 27, 2019 9:58 pm

Hook2.0 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:45 pm
Of course not, why entertain an opinion different from your own.
I'm not going without free choice mineral, but I'm not going to swear or try and sell that everyone needs to feed mineral free choice to have healthy cows that breed back on time and deliver a live calf.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Fescue

Post by True Grit Farms » Mon May 27, 2019 9:59 pm

jehosofat wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:55 pm
Hook2.0 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:45 pm
Of course not, why entertain an opinion different from your own.
Cause he's got 20 cows and knows ever damm thing.
Well he does know his cows inside and out.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Fescue

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 27, 2019 10:01 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:53 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:38 pm
True Grit Farms wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:35 pm


Some cattle don't need to be propped up with minerals and feed to deliver a calf every year. You don't know what your talking about and just repeating nonsense you hear. We use free choice minerals year round and MultiMin 90 in our management. But a lot of my neighbors don't and their cows produce a calf every 12 months. Culling can fix your reproductive problems, along with a host of other issues.
If MultiMin 90 can render some vaccines usless, why can't free choice minerals do the same?
Grit. It is total nonsense to suggest replacing a free choice mineral program by using an injectable mineral compound like multimin. I am not going to waste my time.
How do you know your cows need free choice minerals and can't make it on a couple of MultiMin shots per year? Or maybe no mineral at all? Your speculating and spouting off like it's a fact. But a lot of folks have no mineral program and have no problems. Don't believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see.
There are many aspects of animal husbandry based on practice. It is commony accepted practice to employ a free choice mineral program when high performance is desired. It is a free country, get your cows up every month and inject them with MultiMin. Then report back to us.

You are telling me that there are producers who have no mineral program and they do fine. But then you tell me not to believe anything I hear. So I will dismiss that as a fairytale.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

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Re: Fescue

Post by kenny thomas » Mon May 27, 2019 10:05 pm

Where is Brookhill, we need his opinion on the mineral he uses? Even if we don't pay attention to it.
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

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Re: Fescue

Post by True Grit Farms » Mon May 27, 2019 10:09 pm

No fairytale about it, it's happening all around you. You just need to open your eyes and think for yourself.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Fescue

Post by Bright Raven » Mon May 27, 2019 10:14 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:09 pm
No fairytale about it, it's happening all around you. You just need to open your eyes and think for yourself.
You must be the most contradictory person on the forum. You stated above that you are going to continue a free choice mineral program but you are advocating that it IS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY.

You tell us that we cannot believe anything we hear (posted on CT), yet you make assertions that mean nothing if they cannot be believed.
"Looking for an honest man".
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