Bull Sale: Quality

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Bull Sale: Quality

Post by CreekAngus » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:37 am

Yesterday, here locally, the sale barn put on a consignment bull sale, 28 bulls were entered, almost all Angus, 1 Hereford, 1 Charolais, 2 Red Angus. Only four bulls were quality, 2 Angus the Charolais and a Red. $2,750 was the top, but that same consignor also had the bottom at $1,400. There were bulls there that weaned off under 600 lbs and for the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone would want to put in the expense to raise a total turd of a bull. They would run a yearling bull across the scale and post 900 lb weights and my daughter would yell out,”my show heifer weighed 810 lbs at weaning!” I know we give a lot of grief to one another about our operations and how we do things, especially Brookhill. But I can respect Brookhill, he’s attempting to make great cattle, I can’t respect idiots raising steer prospects into bulls.


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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by elkwc » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:07 pm

I went to a local all breed bull sale. Likewise mainly Angus. Around 40 bulls total. 6 Herefords, 7 Simmi and Simmi Angus. The top was 3,900. 2 y/o plus bulls sold better even if they were lesser quality. Like the other sales I've seen yearlings went begging. The top bulls were from the singke Hereford breeder and one Angus. There were some of less quality but some good bulls sold cheap also. It was evident docility is a strong consideration with many. If a bull showed any sign of beig a little hot he didn't sell well regardless of quality. As a lady sitting by me said. We won't gave a ything high strung

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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:28 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:37 am
Yesterday, here locally, the sale barn put on a consignment bull sale, 28 bulls were entered, almost all Angus, 1 Hereford, 1 Charolais, 2 Red Angus. Only four bulls were quality, 2 Angus the Charolais and a Red. $2,750 was the top, but that same consignor also had the bottom at $1,400. There were bulls there that weaned off under 600 lbs and for the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone would want to put in the expense to raise a total turd of a bull. They would run a yearling bull across the scale and post 900 lb weights and my daughter would yell out,”my show heifer weighed 810 lbs at weaning!” I know we give a lot of grief to one another about our operations and how we do things, especially Brookhill. But I can respect Brookhill, he’s attempting to make great cattle, I can’t respect idiots raising steer prospects into bulls.
I TRULY appreciate what you said above, thank you.
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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by Luckiamute » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:37 am
Yesterday, here locally, the sale barn put on a consignment bull sale, 28 bulls were entered, almost all Angus, 1 Hereford, 1 Charolais, 2 Red Angus. Only four bulls were quality, 2 Angus the Charolais and a Red. $2,750 was the top, but that same consignor also had the bottom at $1,400. There were bulls there that weaned off under 600 lbs and for the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone would want to put in the expense to raise a total turd of a bull. They would run a yearling bull across the scale and post 900 lb weights and my daughter would yell out,”my show heifer weighed 810 lbs at weaning!” I know we give a lot of grief to one another about our operations and how we do things, especially Brookhill. But I can respect Brookhill, he’s attempting to make great cattle, I can’t respect idiots raising steer prospects into bulls.
Based on your location, I'm assuming you're referencing the bull sale at Chehalis Livestock Auction Market. I saw this advertised in the paper and have always wondered what type of quality the bulls were. Are they all registered or just purebred? Who's consigning them? Are these breeders known in the area or just the small "backyard breeders" or the "hobby farmers"? I think too many breeders -- big and small -- keep too many bull calves as bulls and don't castrate as many as they should. Just because it might have good bloodlines doesn't mean it should be kept a bull. Too many people are lazy and won't cull heavy enough. And then there's the folks who buy these poor-quality yearlings and are just happy if they breed their cows and produce a live calf every year without consideration to the quality of the offspring. Totally agree with your statement "I can't respect idiots raising steer prospects into bulls."

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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by Dave » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:13 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:37 am
Yesterday, here locally, the sale barn put on a consignment bull sale, 28 bulls were entered, almost all Angus, 1 Hereford, 1 Charolais, 2 Red Angus. Only four bulls were quality, 2 Angus the Charolais and a Red. $2,750 was the top, but that same consignor also had the bottom at $1,400. There were bulls there that weaned off under 600 lbs and for the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone would want to put in the expense to raise a total turd of a bull. They would run a yearling bull across the scale and post 900 lb weights and my daughter would yell out,”my show heifer weighed 810 lbs at weaning!” I know we give a lot of grief to one another about our operations and how we do things, especially Brookhill. But I can respect Brookhill, he’s attempting to make great cattle, I can’t respect idiots raising steer prospects into bulls.
I sat through that sale a number of times. I only raised my hand one time (and bought the bull). A guy from south of Tumwater brought in a pen of 5 Image Maker sons. They were selling them choice. They had sold 2 already and left what I thought was the best bull in the ring. I got him with one bid for half what number one sold for. But over the years I saw fairly little reason to bid on bulls at that sale. For years I bought my bulls from a guy down on the Willapa south of South Bend. I think Creek will know who I am mentioning.

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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by jscunn » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:51 pm

Nice post Creek, I agree with what you said. For me personally they have to meet all the requirements (pedigree, performance, EPDs, phenotype). That said I dont care if they are great in 3, they have to meet all the requirements. 600 lb WW for bull calves dont meet the minimium.

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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:55 pm

jscunn wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:51 pm
Nice post Creek, I agree with what you said. For me personally they have to meet all the requirements (pedigree, performance, EPDs, phenotype). That said I dont care if they are great in 3, they have to meet all the requirements. 600 lb WW for bull calves dont meet the minimium.
They sure do in Kentucky, heck 500 pound weaning weights cut the mustard here! Why do you think I have made so many people upset?

I like big cattle, I won't deny that. A powerful bull gets the job done. I sold three this past week out of our Big Wayne bull to a guy in Northern Kentucky, from what I've been told so far, no complaints whatsoever, they were turnkey, needed nothing, he put them to work and they started doing what they were intended for ASAP.
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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by uplandnut » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:18 pm

The only thing I question is weaning weights is can weight numbers be skewed drastically when 1 guy uses creep feed and another does nothing but pasture till weaning? I agree with what was said about anything under 600 not meeting the minimum. I just got 2 sale catalogs in the mail for 2 bull sales coming up in my area and they actually have very little selection that are over 600, and only a handful that are over 700. I was looking forward to going to at least one sale but debating if its worth even going when I see the weights.

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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by Aaron » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:29 pm

Unless your level of management matches those conditions under which that 800 lb WW was achieved, it is unlikely to be repeated in your operation.

My best bulls have been those raised under range, or my own, conditions; not in front of a creep feeder. My best calves the last number of years have come off a bull with a 555 lb WW. They surpass those of another bull who had an 820 lb WW.
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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by Ebenezer » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:44 pm

EXT: weaning weight 550 pounds
Lot 1 of Sinclair 2019 sale - top seller at $12,500: weaning weight 508 pounds

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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:45 pm

Aaron wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:29 pm
Unless your level of management matches those conditions under which that 800 lb WW was achieved, it is unlikely to be repeated in your operation.

My best bulls have been those raised under range, or my own, conditions; not in front of a creep feeder. My best calves the last number of years have come off a bull with a 555 lb WW. They surpass those of another bull who had an 820 lb WW.
I understand that the overall objective in most operations is to drive down input costs to the very minimum, nothing wrong with that, but a bull needs nutrition to develop, just like a human. I'm not talking corn gluten and cottonseed hulls till they explode, I'm talking really good hay, or pasture, and supplementation, in my case a 14% protein formula with lots of good stuff mixed in. Our bulls don't finish fat, they finish fit, but they are not starved either. Athletes cannot perform without top nutrition, neither can bulls.

You either have a bull that goes through a group of females like a hot knife through butter, or you have Ferdinand the bull
267

I prefer, and produce the hot knife.
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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by fhug » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:05 pm

Luckiamute wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 pm
I think too many breeders -- big and small -- keep too many bull calves as bulls and don't castrate as many as they should. Just because it might have good bloodlines doesn't mean it should be kept a bull. Too many people are lazy and won't cull heavy enough. And then there's the folks who buy these poor-quality yearlings and are just happy if they breed their cows and produce a live calf every year without consideration to the quality of the offspring. Totally agree with your statement "I can't respect idiots raising steer prospects into bulls."
I am seeing this way too often the past few years. People keeping every bull calf to sell as a bull. Then sell steers with nuts as breeding stock for less money than you can get for a fat steer. If you are selling a bull that you wouldn't use on your own commercial cows, he should have been steered.

We get $2000-2200 for freezer beef. Why go thru the hassle and cost of correctly raising a bull if you are going to sell them for less than that?

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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by Aaron » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:00 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:45 pm
Aaron wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:29 pm
Unless your level of management matches those conditions under which that 800 lb WW was achieved, it is unlikely to be repeated in your operation.

My best bulls have been those raised under range, or my own, conditions; not in front of a creep feeder. My best calves the last number of years have come off a bull with a 555 lb WW. They surpass those of another bull who had an 820 lb WW.
I understand that the overall objective in most operations is to drive down input costs to the very minimum, nothing wrong with that, but a bull needs nutrition to develop, just like a human. I'm not talking corn gluten and cottonseed hulls till they explode, I'm talking really good hay, or pasture, and supplementation, in my case a 14% protein formula with lots of good stuff mixed in. Our bulls don't finish fat, they finish fit, but they are not starved either. Athletes cannot perform without top nutrition, neither can bulls.

You either have a bull that goes through a group of females like a hot knife through butter, or you have Ferdinand the bull
267

I prefer, and produce the hot knife.
The question wasn't so much nutrition, as to do with expectations. No extra value to an 800 lb WW to me if it wasn't based on milk and grass alone, because that is all the future offspring will get here until weaning. Post weaning gain only matters to those potential buyers who retain their calves past weaning.

Now if the 600 WW bull had his head stuck in the creep feeder since birth, than he has no value to anyone. Too low a WW for high input producers and too unpredictable/unreliable for low input producers.
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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by u4411clb » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:11 pm

Epd’s keep going higher and yet actual weaning weights across all breeds for all calves have not changed one bit in 20+ years. You can pay extra for those high weaning weight EPDs bulls but you can pretty much guarantee your weaning weights won’t change that much.

There is only so many pounds your environment is going to give you without inputs. In my area it’s about 600+\- lbs for a steer and 550+\- lbs for heifers on average. And I don’t need a 5000 or 10000 dollar bull to get that.

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Re: Bull Sale: Quality

Post by CreekAngus » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:26 am

Luckiamute wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 pm
CreekAngus wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:37 am
Yesterday, here locally, the sale barn put on a consignment bull sale, 28 bulls were entered, almost all Angus, 1 Hereford, 1 Charolais, 2 Red Angus. Only four bulls were quality, 2 Angus the Charolais and a Red. $2,750 was the top, but that same consignor also had the bottom at $1,400. There were bulls there that weaned off under 600 lbs and for the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone would want to put in the expense to raise a total turd of a bull. They would run a yearling bull across the scale and post 900 lb weights and my daughter would yell out,”my show heifer weighed 810 lbs at weaning!” I know we give a lot of grief to one another about our operations and how we do things, especially Brookhill. But I can respect Brookhill, he’s attempting to make great cattle, I can’t respect idiots raising steer prospects into bulls.
Based on your location, I'm assuming you're referencing the bull sale at Chehalis Livestock Auction Market. I saw this advertised in the paper and have always wondered what type of quality the bulls were. Are they all registered or just purebred? Who's consigning them? Are these breeders known in the area or just the small "backyard breeders" or the "hobby farmers"? I think too many breeders -- big and small -- keep too many bull calves as bulls and don't castrate as many as they should. Just because it might have good bloodlines doesn't mean it should be kept a bull. Too many people are lazy and won't cull heavy enough. And then there's the folks who buy these poor-quality yearlings and are just happy if they breed their cows and produce a live calf every year without consideration to the quality of the offspring. Totally agree with your statement "I can't respect idiots raising steer prospects into bulls."
Yes it that was sale and my sense was folks bring in registered Angus they couldn’t sell private treaty, those were the consigners not local. The local consigners were a mix of the clueless (no epd’s) and a few decent herds that need to cull with a better eye or discretion.
A brand ins’t something you earn, it’s something you live up to - John Dutton

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