And You Think They All Get Away With It

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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby greybeard » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:29 pm

slick4591 wrote:Did you even bother to research CLEAT before spitting out that cliché? Here's a link. Don't think you will find where they negotiate working conditions, medical insurance or salaries like a trade union does.

As a matter of fact, I did, which is why I made the connection. But, from your own link, "Member's Benefits"....you can see for yourself.
https://www.cleat.org/member-benefits/
As the largest police officers’ union in Texas, the largest legal services provider in the state specializing in representing law enforcement officers, and the largest confederation of local police officers’ associations in Texas, CLEAT is the state’s most powerful advocate for the rights of law enforcement professionals. We provide a broad range of benefits, including:










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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby slick4591 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:28 am

Guess I'll be eating crow today, thank you. This organization really tried hard to stay away from that moniker in the 70's and now I read it all over their page.
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby TexasBred » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:30 am

slick4591 wrote:Guess I'll be eating crow today, thank you. This organization really tried hard to stay away from that moniker in the 70's and now I read it all over their page.

Must be truly voluntary as less than 1/3 of police officers are members.
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby slick4591 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:50 am

It's very voluntary. No broken legs or anything.
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby TexasBred » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:26 pm

slick4591 wrote:It's very voluntary. No broken legs or anything.

Looks like this "union" has competition from another "union" and they hate each other.
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby greybeard » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:52 pm

TexasBred wrote:
slick4591 wrote:It's very voluntary. No broken legs or anything.

Looks like this "union" has competition from another "union" and they hate each other.

You can punctuate the name any way you wish, but it's still a union. Just because a union membership, by state or federal statute can't strike doesn't mean it's not a union.
A large majority of federal employees are forbidden to strike, but they have several unions.
National Air Traffic Controllers Association is the union for federal air traffic controllers..took the place of PATCO that was de-certified when air traffic controllers went on strike during the Reagan white house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... ssociation

American Federation of Govt Employees is another union representing federal workers and the greatest majority of those workers (by law) can't strike either.
https://www.afge.org/


And yes, there are police unions in Texas, CLEAT being just one of them.
http://www.newlondonpoliceunion.com/
http://tdcjunion.com/



We all understand, that strikes are just a small part of organized labor. Union, by definition is a group of individuals banded together to attain a common goal instead of each individual trying or having to reach that goal alone. Call it by any name you want, but it's still a union.

The State of Texas' official definition of a labor 'union' is:
(3) "Labor union" means an incorporated or unincorporated
association, group, union, lodge, local, branch, or subordinate
organization of a union of working persons organized and existing to
protect those persons and to improve their working conditions, wages,
or employment relationships, but does not include an organization not
commonly regarded as a labor union.

Locaated at top of pg 151 of:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... ORCODE.pdf

Pretty sure CLEAT's mission statement falls under one or more of those.

As far as I know, the only thing the state says about Law Enforcement labor is that they can't strike, and in fact recognizes (as does the Texas and US supreme court) the right to collectively bargain, but nowhere have I ever seen that police uniformed police labor force in the State is forbidden to form a union....under any name.

(there may be newer versions of this, and others related to State employees like DPS, but I haven't bothered to look)
(subdivision means any municipality.)
The state
TITLE 5. MATTERS AFFECTING PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES


SUBTITLE C. MATTERS AFFECTING PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF MORE THAN ONE TYPE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT


CHAPTER 174. FIRE AND POLICE EMPLOYEE RELATIONS



SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS



Sec. 174.001. SHORT TITLE. This chapter may be cited as The Fire and Police Employee Relations Act.


Added by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 269, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1993.




Sec. 174.002. POLICY. (a) The policy of this state is that a political subdivision shall provide its fire fighters and police officers with compensation and other conditions of employment that are substantially the same as compensation and conditions of employment prevailing in comparable private sector employment.

(b) The policy of this state is that fire fighters and police officers, like employees in the private sector, should have the right to organize for collective bargaining, as collective bargaining is a fair and practical method for determining compensation and other conditions of employment. Denying fire fighters and police officers the right to organize and bargain collectively would lead to strife and unrest, consequently injuring the health, safety, and welfare of the public.

(c) The health, safety, and welfare of the public demands that strikes, lockouts, and work stoppages and slowdowns of fire fighters and police officers be prohibited, and therefore it is the state's duty to make available reasonable alternatives to strikes by fire fighters and police officers.

(d) Because of the essential and emergency nature of the public service performed by fire fighters and police officers, a reasonable alternative to strikes is a system of arbitration conducted under adequate legislative standards. Another reasonable alternative, if the parties fail to agree to arbitrate, is judicial enforcement of the requirements of this chapter regarding compensation and conditions of employment applicable to fire fighters and police officers.

(e) With the right to strike prohibited, to maintain the high morale of fire fighters and police officers and the efficient operation of the departments in which they serve, alternative procedures must be expeditious, effective, and binding.


Added by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 269, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1993.




Sec. 174.003. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Association" means any type of organization, including an agency or employee representation committee or plan, in which fire fighters, police officers, or both, participate and that exists, in whole or in part, to deal with one or more public or private employers concerning grievances, labor disputes, or conditions of employment affecting fire fighters, police officers, or both.

(2) "Fire fighter" means a permanent, paid employee of the fire department of a political subdivision. The term does not include:

(A) the chief of the department; or

(B) a volunteer fire fighter.

(3) "Police officer" means a paid employee who is sworn, certified, and full-time, and who regularly serves in a professional law enforcement capacity in the police department of a political subdivision. The term does not include the chief of the department.

(4) "Political subdivision" includes a municipality.

(5) "Public employer" means the official or group of officials of a political subdivision whose duty is to establish the compensation, hours, and other conditions of employment of fire fighters, police officers, or both, and may include the mayor, city manager, town manager, town administrator, municipal governing body, director of personnel, personnel board, commissioners, or another official or combination of those persons......blah blah blah...

more at the following link:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/S ... LG.174.htm
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby TexasBred » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:40 am

greybeard wrote:
TexasBred wrote:
slick4591 wrote:It's very voluntary. No broken legs or anything.

Looks like this "union" has competition from another "union" and they hate each other.

You can punctuate the name any way you wish, but it's still a union. Just because a union membership, by state or federal statute can't strike doesn't mean it's not a union.
A large majority of federal employees are forbidden to strike, but they have several unions.
National Air Traffic Controllers Association is the union for federal air traffic controllers..took the place of PATCO that was de-certified when air traffic controllers went on strike during the Reagan white house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... ssociation

American Federation of Govt Employees is another union representing federal workers and the greatest majority of those workers (by law) can't strike either.
https://www.afge.org/


And yes, there are police unions in Texas, CLEAT being just one of them.
http://www.newlondonpoliceunion.com/
http://tdcjunion.com/



We all understand, that strikes are just a small part of organized labor. Union, by definition is a group of individuals banded together to attain a common goal instead of each individual trying or having to reach that goal alone. Call it by any name you want, but it's still a union.

The State of Texas' official definition of a labor 'union' is:
(3) "Labor union" means an incorporated or unincorporated
association, group, union, lodge, local, branch, or subordinate
organization of a union of working persons organized and existing to
protect those persons and to improve their working conditions, wages,
or employment relationships, but does not include an organization not
commonly regarded as a labor union.

Locaated at top of pg 151 of:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... ORCODE.pdf

Pretty sure CLEAT's mission statement falls under one or more of those.

As far as I know, the only thing the state says about Law Enforcement labor is that they can't strike, and in fact recognizes (as does the Texas and US supreme court) the right to collectively bargain, but nowhere have I ever seen that police uniformed police labor force in the State is forbidden to form a union....under any name.

(there may be newer versions of this, and others related to State employees like DPS, but I haven't bothered to look)
(subdivision means any municipality.)
The state
TITLE 5. MATTERS AFFECTING PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES


SUBTITLE C. MATTERS AFFECTING PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF MORE THAN ONE TYPE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT


CHAPTER 174. FIRE AND POLICE EMPLOYEE RELATIONS



SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS



Sec. 174.001. SHORT TITLE. This chapter may be cited as The Fire and Police Employee Relations Act.


Added by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 269, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1993.




Sec. 174.002. POLICY. (a) The policy of this state is that a political subdivision shall provide its fire fighters and police officers with compensation and other conditions of employment that are substantially the same as compensation and conditions of employment prevailing in comparable private sector employment.

(b) The policy of this state is that fire fighters and police officers, like employees in the private sector, should have the right to organize for collective bargaining, as collective bargaining is a fair and practical method for determining compensation and other conditions of employment. Denying fire fighters and police officers the right to organize and bargain collectively would lead to strife and unrest, consequently injuring the health, safety, and welfare of the public.

(c) The health, safety, and welfare of the public demands that strikes, lockouts, and work stoppages and slowdowns of fire fighters and police officers be prohibited, and therefore it is the state's duty to make available reasonable alternatives to strikes by fire fighters and police officers.

(d) Because of the essential and emergency nature of the public service performed by fire fighters and police officers, a reasonable alternative to strikes is a system of arbitration conducted under adequate legislative standards. Another reasonable alternative, if the parties fail to agree to arbitrate, is judicial enforcement of the requirements of this chapter regarding compensation and conditions of employment applicable to fire fighters and police officers.

(e) With the right to strike prohibited, to maintain the high morale of fire fighters and police officers and the efficient operation of the departments in which they serve, alternative procedures must be expeditious, effective, and binding.


Added by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 269, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1993.




Sec. 174.003. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Association" means any type of organization, including an agency or employee representation committee or plan, in which fire fighters, police officers, or both, participate and that exists, in whole or in part, to deal with one or more public or private employers concerning grievances, labor disputes, or conditions of employment affecting fire fighters, police officers, or both.

(2) "Fire fighter" means a permanent, paid employee of the fire department of a political subdivision. The term does not include:

(A) the chief of the department; or

(B) a volunteer fire fighter.

(3) "Police officer" means a paid employee who is sworn, certified, and full-time, and who regularly serves in a professional law enforcement capacity in the police department of a political subdivision. The term does not include the chief of the department.

(4) "Political subdivision" includes a municipality.

(5) "Public employer" means the official or group of officials of a political subdivision whose duty is to establish the compensation, hours, and other conditions of employment of fire fighters, police officers, or both, and may include the mayor, city manager, town manager, town administrator, municipal governing body, director of personnel, personnel board, commissioners, or another official or combination of those persons......blah blah blah...

more at the following link:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/S ... LG.174.htm




OK GB you win....your'e the greatest Googler since CB....what the he// is your prize??? Take a deep breath, stick your chest out and crow like a rooster.
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby greybeard » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:51 am

Oh that's rich TB, and you called me cute........for just telling the truth?
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby Ryder » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:00 pm

The thieving little punk started the whole thing.
When I was his age I certainly knew the possible consequences for breaking in to a car and stealing.
Maybe the man, who just happened to be a cop, did go a little overboard.
But there is no doubt in my mind that 'passion' played a major part.
The little thief violated his space and stole his stuff.
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby slick4591 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:13 pm

My understanding is the jury did come back with an affirmative finding on the "sudden passion" defense.
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Re: And You Think They All Get Away With It

Postby True Grit Farms » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:31 pm

Ryder wrote:The thieving little punk started the whole thing.
When I was his age I certainly knew the possible consequences for breaking in to a car and stealing.
Maybe the man, who just happened to be a cop, did go a little overboard.
But there is no doubt in my mind that 'passion' played a major part.
The little thief violated his space and stole his stuff.

The thief got what he deserved, it's a shame you can't kill every thief, after they had their day in court.
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