MLV Vaccines

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Bright Raven
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MLV Vaccines

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:01 am

A vet in our general area was asked to give a presentation on vaccinations at our annual field day event.  She did a great job.

The lecture was presented as if ALL MLV vaccines present a risk of abortion if pregnant cows that have not previously been exposed are vaccinated with a MLV vaccine.  I ask her if she intended to represent ALL MLV vaccines as a risk.  Her explanation is the same one I got from the manager of the Mayslick Mill.  They don't believe most cattle producers recognize which MLV vaccines present a risk of abortion from the ones that do not pose a risk.  I appreciate their concern but it is with regret.  Ron, at the Mayslick Mill, does not even stock Bovi-Shield Gold because they are concerned producers will administer it improperly.  The shame is that only the IBR and BVD components of any FP MLV vaccine are associated with abortion.  To further the shame, there are many other MLV vaccines such as Calf Guard that have Coronavirus and Rotavirus in an MLV preparation that are not associated with abortions.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby kenny thomas » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:13 am

But doesnt Inforce3 protect against IBR and it says safe for,pregnant cattle
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:30 am

kenny thomas wrote:But doesnt Inforce3 protect against IBR and it says safe for,pregnant cattle


Inforce 3 does include strains of MLV that cause Infectious Bovine Rhinotracheitis.  According to the manufacturer,  the MLV stains for IBR do not shed.  This is based on intranasal administration. So it can be used on healthy pregnant cows.

That is not true of Bovi-Shield Gold FP 5 products which are injectable MLV preparations. Unless the cow has been previously vaccinated with a MLV FP 5.

For my own peace of mind, I like to vaccinate for FP 5 viruses when the cows are open after calving and before breeding.

"As demonstrated in three separate safety studies, INFORCE 3 is safe for use in all types, ages and classes of cattle. INFORCE 3 was demonstrated safe for use in very young, high-stress calves, weaned and high-stress stocker calves, and pregnant heifers and cows."
Zoetis Website
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:53 am

Inforce 3:

In Zoetis efficacy studies, all calves vaccinated with INFORCE 3 survived a severe BRSV challenge in which all unvaccinated controls died.1,2
The studies also demonstrated that those calves vaccinated with INFORCE 3 showed fewer lung lesions and reduced viral shedding.
Additionally, INFORCE 3 was shown to help prevent respiratory disease caused by IBR and PI3, and reduce IBR and PI3 viral shedding.3,4,5
Zoetis
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:43 am

Kenny,

I just had a conversation with the customer service vet at Zoetis.  I ask him why Inforce 3 does not require the same precaution that other IBR MLV Vaccines such as Bovi Shield Gold.   The answer: The IBR MLV component of Inforce 3 is a heat sensitive strain that remains in the respiratory system and although IT CAN BE SHED, it does not elicit an infectious body reaction that has been known to cause abortions as with other IBR MLV preparations.  The Inforce 3 IBR preparation is truly unique.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby kenny thomas » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:55 am

Good info, thanks. I use it on everything i bring in and also my own.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:20 am

Do you give it in one nostril or two?
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:38 am

Stocker Steve wrote:Do you give it in one nostril or two?

One. They are getting it approved for either way. Efficacy is the same
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Lucky_P » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:37 pm

BR,
In nearly 30 years of diagnostic medicine, almost every case of IBR-induced abortion that I've ever seen was 'vaccine-associated'... the producers had vaccinated pregnant cattle with a MLV product and caused an abortion 'storm' of sorts.
I might have seen one case of field-strain IBR abortion while I was in my pathology residency, but every one since has been directly linked to vaccination with a MLV.
Granted, with some of those products, IF the cow/heifer has received two doses administered PROPERLY, and in the correct time frame, the likelihood is that their fetus will be protected against exposure to 'field-strain' virus... as well as vaccine-strains, if they are administered.

However, I certainly understand and appreciate the fact that there's a whole lot of folks out there who have the propensity to screw up and give a MLV to cattle that are not adequately pre-vaccinated. I sure see enough misuse and recommendations for misuse of antibiotics on this and similar boards, and many of the folks here are better informed than a lot of producers out there... and, if they're taking their animal health advice (as many do) from the folks working at TSC or Southern States...or Heather Smith Thomas...well, it's potentially pretty dangerous.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby dun » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:21 pm

I guess that's one benefit of raising your own replacements. All heifers are vaccinated with MLV at weaning and agin at RTS time. We have never had issues with an abortion from subsequent administrations of it.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:33 pm

Lucky_P wrote:BR,
In nearly 30 years of diagnostic medicine, almost every case of IBR-induced abortion that I've ever seen was 'vaccine-associated'... the producers had vaccinated pregnant cattle with a MLV product and caused an abortion 'storm' of sorts.
I might have seen one case of field-strain IBR abortion while I was in my pathology residency, but every one since has been directly linked to vaccination with a MLV.
Granted, with some of those products, IF the cow/heifer has received two doses administered PROPERLY, and in the correct time frame, the likelihood is that their fetus will be protected against exposure to 'field-strain' virus... as well as vaccine-strains, if they are administered.

However, I certainly understand and appreciate the fact that there's a whole lot of folks out there who have the propensity to screw up and give a MLV to cattle that are not adequately pre-vaccinated. I sure see enough misuse and recommendations for misuse of antibiotics on this and similar boards, and many of the folks here are better informed than a lot of producers out there... and, if they're taking their animal health advice (as many do) from the folks working at TSC or Southern States...or Heather Smith Thomas...well, it's potentially pretty dangerous.


Lucky,

Let's point out that the primary purpose of Inforce 3 is not for fetal protection but for respiratory protection.  I can see where your reply could be read and someone may think, 'Well, if IBR is such a low threat,  why vaccinate at all?"  Inforce 3 is getting most of its use by producers wanting to protect newborns, feeders and stockers from respiratory disease. I will pass on that he said the greater benefit of Inforce 3 is the BRSV protection.

Having said that, I appreciate why there is concern for the misuse of the MLV IBR and BVD vaccines although apparently Inforce 3 is not one that poses a risk of abortion.

The treated strain of IBR used in the vaccine is heat sensitive to temperatures above 97 degrees Fahrenheit.   Which is the lower temperature at which the lungs maintain.  According to Zoetis, the higher systemic temperatures eliminates the abortion threat.  This strain is proprietary to Zoetis.
Last edited by Bright Raven on Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm

Why risk using a MLV? I've seen nothing but the down sides of using MLV, including some deformed calves. And yes I know a MLV doesn't cause deformities in calves supposedly. But once we stopped using MLV we haven't had another deformed calf. I'll use redneck logic myself around here and never use a MLV again. This will probably come back to bite me, but we vaccinate with Calvary 9 or Covexin 8 with tetanus and Triangle 10. I can count the number of sick calves or cows we've had on one hand. I'll leave the sick cows to those that like to doctor and pet them.....hopefully.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:39 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Why risk using a MLV? I've seen nothing but the down sides of using MLV, including some deformed calves. And yes I know a MLV doesn't cause deformities in calves supposedly. But once we stopped using MLV we haven't had another deformed calf. I'll use redneck logic myself around here and never use a MLV again. This will probably come back to bite me, but we vaccinate with Calvary 9 or Covexin 8 with tetanus and Triangle 10. I can count the number of sick calves or cows we've had on one hand. I'll leave the sick cows to those that like to doctor and pet them.....hopefully.


Actually, your logic is fine. If I where you, I would be more concerned that Triangle 10 does not include the Leptospira borgpetersenii serovar Hardjo Bovis (HD) than not using an MLV. Leptospirosis is caused primarily by the HD serovar and Georgia has if I remember correctly a high incidence of HD leptospirosis.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby True Grit Farms » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:00 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:Why risk using a MLV? I've seen nothing but the down sides of using MLV, including some deformed calves. And yes I know a MLV doesn't cause deformities in calves supposedly. But once we stopped using MLV we haven't had another deformed calf. I'll use redneck logic myself around here and never use a MLV again. This will probably come back to bite me, but we vaccinate with Calvary 9 or Covexin 8 with tetanus and Triangle 10. I can count the number of sick calves or cows we've had on one hand. I'll leave the sick cows to those that like to doctor and pet them.....hopefully.


Actually, your logic is fine. If I where you, I would be more concerned that Triangle 10 does not include the Leptospira borgpetersenii serovar Hardjo Bovis (HD) than not using an MLV. Leptospirosis is caused primarily by the HD serovar and Georgia has if I remember correctly a high incidence of HD leptospirosis.

Leptospirosis is primarily a problem a dairy might in counter. Leptospirosis is very rare to nonexistent in beef cattle in Georgia or anywhere else for that matter. The vets are pushing drugs the same as doctors, for kick backs.
"The vaccine is cheap enough you might as well give it" I've heard that more than once. We have Dr Lee Jones from UGA coming out Thursday great guy and great teacher, but a drug pusher all the same. I don't think pumping cattle full of vaccines is helping anything but making more problems down the road. The more we use the more they'll make, it's a big business after all.
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Re: MLV Vaccines

Postby Bright Raven » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:18 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Bright Raven wrote:
True Grit Farms wrote:Why risk using a MLV? I've seen nothing but the down sides of using MLV, including some deformed calves. And yes I know a MLV doesn't cause deformities in calves supposedly. But once we stopped using MLV we haven't had another deformed calf. I'll use redneck logic myself around here and never use a MLV again. This will probably come back to bite me, but we vaccinate with Calvary 9 or Covexin 8 with tetanus and Triangle 10. I can count the number of sick calves or cows we've had on one hand. I'll leave the sick cows to those that like to doctor and pet them.....hopefully.


Actually, your logic is fine. If I where you, I would be more concerned that Triangle 10 does not include the Leptospira borgpetersenii serovar Hardjo Bovis (HD) than not using an MLV. Leptospirosis is caused primarily by the HD serovar and Georgia has if I remember correctly a high incidence of HD leptospirosis.

Leptospirosis is primarily a problem a dairy might in counter. Leptospirosis is very rare to nonexistent in beef cattle in Georgia or anywhere else for that matter. The vets are pushing drugs the same as doctors, for kick backs.
"The vaccine is cheap enough you might as well give it" I've heard that more than once. We have Dr Lee Jones from UGA coming out Thursday great guy and great teacher, but a drug pusher all the same. I don't think pumping cattle full of vaccines is helping anything but making more problems down the road. The more we use the more they'll make, it's a big business after all.


Here is a reference that contradicts your statement it is rare. There are many others. Google prevalence of Leptospira in cattle. Worldwide it is considered one of the more common causes of abortion in both dairy and beef. BTW: this article addresses the HB serovar.

A recent study (Wikse, et al Bov. Pract. 2007 pp. 15-23) shed some light on the prevalence of various leptospires in beef cattle in the U.S. The study examined beef cow/calf operations in 6 states (CA, FL, MS, MO, SD, and TX). The author found 42% of the 67 herds examined had results compatible with infection by L. borgpetersenii serovar Hardjo (hardjo-bovis). The range of prevalence in herds was from 8% (SD) to 58% (MS). In 5 of the states the prevalence ranged from 38% to 58%. These results highlighted the fact that this serovar was more common than expected. Currently, there is only one vaccine in the U.S. that contains this serovar (Spirovac®; Pfizer AH).

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/le ... roceedings

Regarding marketing. I don't disagree.
Last edited by Bright Raven on Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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