can you explain why you raise the cattle you do?

[TexasBred]

I am well aware of what pinkeye is and how its caused. But its proven that WF cattle get it more than dark faced animals. Every hereford breeder i know deals with pinkeye on a regular basis. With good management programs. But hey, you win. I wont fight you on it.

Not to even mention the awful udder problems with herefords. Seems to be getting a little better but still awful. Perhaps just a little bit of holstein in the blood would improve that deficiency.

[Caustic Burno]

I am well aware of what pinkeye is and how its caused. But its proven that WF cattle get it more than dark faced animals. Every hereford breeder i know deals with pinkeye on a regular basis. With good management programs. But hey, you win. I wont fight you on it.

Not to even mention the awful udder problems with herefords. Seems to be getting a little better but still awful. Perhaps just a little bit of holstein in the blood would improve that deficiency.

TB as you are fanning the flames on the fire I have already built you are dead on about udder issue's.
It is not Angus I can't stand as much as the breeder's thinking it is the savior of all us poor dumb asses that choose to run another breed. There is a real diconnect in today's cattleman's thinking if it is black or has papers it is quality. There is not a breed on God's green earth that doesn't have it's pluses and minus. The biggest problem I have with Angus is they have done more to destroy our most effiecient(sp) breed the Brimmer by selling a bill of goods as it is bad meat. You put a musk ox steak in front of 99.9% of American's and they couldn't tell the difference if you told them it was CAB. Their marketing was pure genius for the breed, in the process it has almost destroyed every other breed in the country.

[Caustic Burno]

I am well aware of what pinkeye is and how its caused. But its proven that WF cattle get it more than dark faced animals. Every hereford breeder i know deals with pinkeye on a regular basis. With good management programs. But hey, you win. I wont fight you on it.

Not to even mention the awful udder problems with herefords. Seems to be getting a little better but still awful. Perhaps just a little bit of holstein in the blood would improve that deficiency.

Funny in all the years of Herefords and Brangus here I have had two case's one was a Hereford and the other Brangus.
I didn't start with either breed yesterday. I got one old Brangus girl left that is old enough to vote.
Maybe I am not a big cattleman like you so therefore, I most likely lack in knowledge on the subject. If you have pinkeye you have a mangement problem not a cow. Most I ever ran was 37, but I have been playing with them for 40+ years. My girls had to pay there way or leave. I will say this until last year I had never owned welfare cattle.
I will be back to play with you tonight. Got the 26' gooseneck hooked up got to go cut out some sorry Char/Herf,
Herf/ Brimmer calves to haul tomorrow along with my sorry F-1's Angus/ Herf's.

[Anguscattle]

Caustic,

Ill give you some credit there. I think i posted somewhere on this sight that although i like angus, im not a huge supporter of the CAB. a lot of people think that bc we raise angus that we love the CAB. some do im sure. I dont really care for it. If they incorporated the AngusSource program into the CAB id be sold. That way the cattle would have to be 50% registered angus. Notice i said registered, not PUREbred. But as it is now, if its partly black, it passes. I dont know this, but id bet that the majority of cattle that go through the CAB dont even have angus in them, or very little. There are A LOT of other good breeds out there, and they dont need the angus in them to make them good. And i 100% agree that no breed is perfect. Far from it.

[Anguscattle]

Ill add to that last post,

We live about 2 miles from a large hereford breeder, it seems like everytime i talk to him they have a case of pinkeye. We havent had pinkeye in at least 10 years. They vaccinate for it, we dont. They have a much better management program than we do. Am i saying its all bc of the WF, no. But i think it "might" play some role.

And another note, i understand where youre coming from on the CAB hurting other breeds. But dont hate angus breeders because of it. We didnt do that. Our association did. It was smart on their part, bad for everyone else, i agree. But theres still plenty of market out there for everyone else. Every breed has a market.

[SSGenetics]

Caustic,

Ill give you some credit there. I think i posted somewhere on this sight that although i like angus, im not a huge supporter of the CAB. a lot of people think that bc we raise angus that we love the CAB. some do im sure. I dont really care for it. If they incorporated the AngusSource program into the CAB id be sold. That way the cattle would have to be 50% registered angus. Notice i said registered, not PUREbred. But as it is now, if its partly black, it passes. I dont know this, but id bet that the majority of cattle that go through the CAB dont even have angus in them, or very little. There are A LOT of other good breeds out there, and they dont need the angus in them to make them good. And i 100% agree that no breed is perfect. Far from it.

CAB is what made your breed and any other black hided cattle in such "high demand"....

[Caustic Burno]

Caustic,

Ill give you some credit there. I think i posted somewhere on this sight that although i like angus, im not a huge supporter of the CAB. a lot of people think that bc we raise angus that we love the CAB. some do im sure. I dont really care for it. If they incorporated the AngusSource program into the CAB id be sold. That way the cattle would have to be 50% registered angus. Notice i said registered, not PUREbred. But as it is now, if its partly black, it passes. I dont know this, but id bet that the majority of cattle that go through the CAB dont even have angus in them, or very little. There are A LOT of other good breeds out there, and they dont need the angus in them to make them good. And i 100% agree that no breed is perfect. Far from it.

On this we agree. As Cattlemen we have failed as everyday good cattle get discounted because of color not quality.
This boils down to robbery with me and it is our fault for letting it happen and not sticking together.
Due to health and drought I got out of the seedstock side you can't do it with 10 cows left after the drought.
I put Obama in the pasture to maximize profit to the nut's as the heifers bring a premium as replacements and the steers at the barn. This is not the most efficent cross for here, but this is what the buyers have bought into.
Just like the guys have bought into papers and epd's as gospel and not a tool, nothing replaces a discerning eye.

[Kathie in Thorp]

We keep the cattle we do because we just flat like them. British Whites. Decent temperament; easy calvers bred to the right-framed bull; really good mamas; they finish out well and taste every bit as good as any "certified" beef I've had; they have few health issues; and are predominately dark-skinned but white haired, which knocks out most pink-eye problems. And they're pretty to look at. Works for us.

Always thought that BW were pretty cow's, lady about ten miles from me has a nice size herd of them.
Those cow's are dog gentle, looks to me like nothing but a white Angus with none of the bad traits.

Is that lady's name West, CB?

[highgrit]

It's to bad you don't have to have a DNA test done on any cow thats sold as CAB. I think 75% Angus would be a good number to start with. A person could make a few bucks that away, and the consumer would get what their paying for. No more tom, dick and harry cows sold as CAB. The AAA would be making a killin and so would we. But we all need to stick together, or we will all be out. I LUV BEEF

[andybob]

It's to bad you don't have to have a DNA test done on any cow thats sold as CAB. I think 75% Angus would be a good number to start with. A person could make a few bucks that away, and the consumer would get what their paying for. No more tom, dick and harry cows sold as CAB. The AAA would be making a killin and so would we. But we all need to stick together, or we will all be out. I LUV BEEF

I believe the British system is better, to qualify the steers must be proven to have been sired by a pedigree Aberdeen Angus bull and be of the appropriate grade. This provides a market for Angus bulls and semen benefitting the Angus breeders, and the cows can be of a breed or cross suitable for the management system on the farm, colour has no part in the system.

[dun]

It's to bad you don't have to have a DNA test done on any cow thats sold as CAB. I think 75% Angus would be a good number to start with. A person could make a few bucks that away, and the consumer would get what their paying for. No more tom, dick and harry cows sold as CAB. The AAA would be making a killin and so would we. But we all need to stick together, or we will all be out. I LUV BEEF

Only problem is that CAB doesn;t have any percentage angus requirements as per the USDA standard. There are other programs that have breed requirements but CAB isn;t one of them. CAB was started years ago as a method of selling angus bulls. It had just become a victim uf it's own success.

[Anguscattle]

Caustic,

Ill give you some credit there. I think i posted somewhere on this sight that although i like angus, im not a huge supporter of the CAB. a lot of people think that bc we raise angus that we love the CAB. some do im sure. I dont really care for it. If they incorporated the AngusSource program into the CAB id be sold. That way the cattle would have to be 50% registered angus. Notice i said registered, not PUREbred. But as it is now, if its partly black, it passes. I dont know this, but id bet that the majority of cattle that go through the CAB dont even have angus in them, or very little. There are A LOT of other good breeds out there, and they dont need the angus in them to make them good. And i 100% agree that no breed is perfect. Far from it.

CAB is what made your breed and any other black hided cattle in such "high demand"....

I agree with you there. But that doesnt mean I have to support it or believe in it. As ive said, make it a requirement to be at least 50% angus and ill buy into it.

[Caustic Burno]

It's to bad you don't have to have a DNA test done on any cow thats sold as CAB. I think 75% Angus would be a good number to start with. A person could make a few bucks that away, and the consumer would get what their paying for. No more tom, dick and harry cows sold as CAB. The AAA would be making a killin and so would we. But we all need to stick together, or we will all be out. I LUV BEEF

Only problem is that CAB doesn;t have any percentage angus requirements as per the USDA standard. There are other programs that have breed requirements but CAB isn;t one of them. CAB was started years ago as a method of selling angus bulls. It had just become a victim uf it's own success.

Amen on that, it doesn't even except Red Angus and I have seen some mighty fine red's.
The problem from day one it was based on color. Once the hide comes off they are all the same color.

[cow pollinater]

Ill add to that last post,

We live about 2 miles from a large hereford breeder, it seems like everytime i talk to him they have a case of pinkeye. We havent had pinkeye in at least 10 years. They vaccinate for it, we dont. They have a much better management program than we do. Am i saying its all bc of the WF, no. But i think it "might" play some role.

Not to be argumentative as I pretty much agree with most of what you've posted so far in this thread but I used to work with an operation with about five hundred RMF cows that thought they needed to vaccinate weaned calves for pinkeye. The cases skyrocketed(which was fantasic for me as they paid me to ride the weaned calves everyday on horses that I was being paid to ride by someone else ) after they started vaccinating. They were told that more pinkeye was proof that they needed the vaccine... After three years they quit vaccinating and I cut back on how many horses I could take on.

[Kathie in Thorp]

Ill add to that last post,

We live about 2 miles from a large hereford breeder, it seems like everytime i talk to him they have a case of pinkeye. We havent had pinkeye in at least 10 years. They vaccinate for it, we dont. They have a much better management program than we do. Am i saying its all bc of the WF, no. But i think it "might" play some role.

Not to be argumentative as I pretty much agree with most of what you've posted so far in this thread but I used to work with an operation with about five hundred RMF cows that thought they needed to vaccinate weaned calves for pinkeye. The cases skyrocketed(which was fantasic for me as they paid me to ride the weaned calves everyday on horses that I was being paid to ride by someone else ) after they started vaccinating. They were told that more pinkeye was proof that they needed the vaccine... After three years they quit vaccinating and I cut back on how many horses I could take on.

Just curious, CP, because I don't know . . . . did they use a live vaccine or a dead vaccine for pink-eye? I've always thought that live vaccines were more likely to cause a problem . . . but the others may not be as effective. ??