Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby backhoeboogie » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:58 am

HerefordSire wrote:
Douglas wrote:Hereford your calculations are fine by me. Much better that the first analysis that included your cost basis. I agree that cows that have been profitable in the past are more likely to be profitable in the future, but you have to ignore the original purchase price you had in your first example to make the calculations. The only missing item is your opportunity cost.
The cull or not cull decision is fairly complicated and it is a question as to what is the most profitable course of action. Keeping a cow can be profitable, as well as selling a cull and buying another cow can be profitable. Selling a cull and needing less hay can be profitable. Selling and putting the money in a saving account, or renting your land can be profitable. You have to pick the best alternative based on your best estimates of the future. The scenario that produced the highest net present value is the best economic choice. These alternatives represent the opportunity cost of keeping a particular cow. Cows with an expected productive life of 10 more years for example are going to have a significantly higher present value than one with 5 more years of expected production if they have similar annual profitability.
Let me give you my personal example. I have 30 cows including 10 replacement heifers. I have 20 calves to market this fall. I have done a lot of financial projections and I have determined that my operation will be more profitable (or less of a loss) by culling 10 cows. This would allow me to keep my calves over the winter on my stockpiled fescue at a much lower cost than cows. This would also allow me to market my calves in the spring when prices are normally better. So my decision is not if to cull but which to cull. I believe my decision will improve my profitability, but of course I could be wrong, it all depends on the accuracy of my projections on prices and costs. In my estimation selling a profitable cow could result in more overall profits for my operation. In my scenario you look at past performance but you also have to look at age, foot problems, etc. in deciding which cows to cull. An older cow is more likely to drop dead, become lame, sick, or need vet care and return much less than in the past.
If prices dropped and all your cows became unprofitable you would not necessarily sell them all. You would decide what you expected the future to hold as to profits and decide accordingly whether to sell or keep. This is why I suggest that you look more toward the future and less toward the past. I think we have beaten this dead horse enough.


Since you previously brought up stock as in securities....ride a winner and sell a loser....then before the end of the year breakeven by pairing up losses and gains.

I was hoping you would bring up capitalization cost of a younger problem-free cow and point out that the main difference is the cap cost...and between these types of cows is one hasn't earned her keep but you expect her to make more money.


If that old cow's calf is still a winner each year, she can hang. There's not much delta between SS and a cutter/canner. The year the calf tapers, it is time to make hard decisions. If you can't make sound decisions, you don't need to be in business.

Your evaluation of that cow years back is what you are accountable for. You need to fix all bad judgements asap in everything.

If that old gal is marginal, a hard winter or a summer drought can take its toll in a hurry.
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby Douglas » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:17 pm

"Since you previously brought up stock as in securities....ride a winner and sell a loser....then before the end of the year breakeven by pairing up losses and gains."

The point of culling is like trying to sell your stock before they become losers, when the price drops your too late, same with cows.
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby Brute 23 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:37 pm

The point of culling is to get rid of that mouth to feed. There is no doubt she will pay for herself over the next X amount of years... but if you don't make it that amount of years then what? I will cull now before I go into debt banking that cow will produce x-amount later on.

1) any problems... if they are still there
2) old cows... if they have less than 5 yrs left in them
3) heifers... if there are 20 ready to be bred in 2 months or 20 working mommas to decide between. The heifers are gone.

Horns is my wild card. Horns + any other doubt = :wave:

Thats just my opinion. You can drive yourself crazy trying to cull. :)
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby msscamp » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:46 pm

Douglas wrote:My thinking is to base it on this year's calves. Keep the ones with the best calves that were born when i expected them to be.


One year is not difinitive. Without good records of what each animal has produced in past years, and how their offspring performed your culling decision can easily be skewed by conditions, illness, lack of nutrition, bullying by herdmates, what they were bred to if you AI, etc. - it is not all on the cow, the bull also contributes. You need to start keeping track of birth weights, weaning weights, past performance of the calves, forage conditions, vaccinations, when they were wormed, etc. That way you will know exactly what is going on in your herd, and can make an intelligent, informed decision on who to cull.
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby mnmtranching » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:53 am

msscamp wrote:
Douglas wrote:My thinking is to base it on this year's calves. Keep the ones with the best calves that were born when i expected them to be.


One year is not difinitive. Without good records of what each animal has produced in past years, and how their offspring performed your culling decision can easily be skewed by conditions, illness, lack of nutrition, bullying by herdmates, what they were bred to if you AI, etc. - it is not all on the cow, the bull also contributes. You need to start keeping track of birth weights, weaning weights, past performance of the calves, forage conditions, vaccinations, when they were wormed, etc. That way you will know exactly what is going on in your herd, and can make an intelligent, informed decision on who to cull.


Sound advice. Lots of things could slow a calf and be no fault of the cow. 2 slow calves in a row, evaluate.
I think the cows condition. signs of going downhill, longer spaces between calves, not putting weight on like she once did, leg problems or re occurring lameness, eye problems, or any noticeable health problems. Take her to market while she will bring a decent kill price.
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby GMN » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:39 pm

TNcowman wrote:Looking for advice on culling older cattle from my herd of 25 cows.I have three or four older ones that seem to have foot problems (limping) several times a year. They seem to be ok after several weeks but come up lame again in a two to three months. Is this the start of bigger problems? Calves look fair compared to others but some starting to breed back slower.


Put them on the list, but wait until the market is better or you will lose money, cull cows now are horribly priced. I think a good thing to think of is, when you sell them, will you be able to replace them, if the answer is No, may need to think some more on culling them.

Foot issues are difficult, don't want to wait too long, limpers will bring bottom dollar, and if they fall or someday can't get up, you will get zero.

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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby edrsimms » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:48 pm

this is pretty simple really -- when you notice your older cows performing less --as in they are no longer weaning as heavy a calf as they once did-- it is time for them to go because a replacement in their slot would be aking you more money -- so move her
Surely anyone in the beef business maintains performance records on their cattle
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby Brute 23 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:24 am

edrsimms wrote:Surely anyone in the beef business maintains performance records on their cattle



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby BC » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:34 am

1. At weaning, cull open cows. You may let them flesh up a little if you have the forage resources.
2. Sell cows with problems - bad udders, feet, loss of teeth.

As I get older, desposition is becoming a bigger cull factor.
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby Stocker Steve » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:06 pm

mnmtranching wrote:I think the cows condition. signs of going downhill, longer spaces between calves, not putting weight on like she once did, leg problems or re occurring lameness, eye problems, or any noticeable health problems. Take her to market while she will bring a decent kill price.


I have two calm aged hereford cross cows that are raising average calves and do not limp but they are very slow. They both trail the herd when it is moved and one will bawl alot. Is this an age related joint problem I need to cull for - - or just the way Hereford grandmas operate???
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby dun » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:30 am

Stocker Steve wrote:
mnmtranching wrote:I think the cows condition. signs of going downhill, longer spaces between calves, not putting weight on like she once did, leg problems or re occurring lameness, eye problems, or any noticeable health problems. Take her to market while she will bring a decent kill price.


I have two calm aged hereford cross cows that are raising average calves and do not limp but they are very slow. They both trail the herd when it is moved and one will bawl alot. Is this an age related joint problem I need to cull for - - or just the way Hereford grandmas operate???

I think it is more a function of age then breed. Granny vlk Angus is 21 this year and she has been slow moving for aboiut the last 4-5 years. But when we're moving the rest of the cows and they get sidetracked, Ol Granny just keeps plodding along and eventually gets to the front. She doesn;t bawl though, just goes about her business quietly
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby 3waycross » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:23 am

dun wrote:
Stocker Steve wrote:
mnmtranching wrote:I think the cows condition. signs of going downhill, longer spaces between calves, not putting weight on like she once did, leg problems or re occurring lameness, eye problems, or any noticeable health problems. Take her to market while she will bring a decent kill price.


I have two calm aged hereford cross cows that are raising average calves and do not limp but they are very slow. They both trail the herd when it is moved and one will bawl alot. Is this an age related joint problem I need to cull for - - or just the way Hereford grandmas operate???

I think it is more a function of age then breed. Granny vlk Angus is 21 this year and she has been slow moving for aboiut the last 4-5 years. But when we're moving the rest of the cows and they get sidetracked, Ol Granny just keeps plodding along and eventually gets to the front. She doesn;t bawl though, just goes about her business quietly


You have a 21yr old cow that still raises a calf every year? WOW!
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Re: Need advice on Culling older cattle - what to look for

Postby dun » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:16 am

3waycross wrote:
dun wrote:I think it is more a function of age then breed. Granny vlk Angus is 21 this year and she has been slow moving for aboiut the last 4-5 years. But when we're moving the rest of the cows and they get sidetracked, Ol Granny just keeps plodding along and eventually gets to the front. She doesn;t bawl though, just goes about her business quietly


You have a 21yr old cow that still raises a calf every year? WOW!


She's not doing as well with her calf this year. But the orphan calf she claimed (that's why she's Granny) and her calf are still not doing too badly.
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