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Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:33 am
by Bright Raven
I was in a farm supply yesterday looking for Spirovac VL5 or L5. It is produced by Zoetis. I got 2 bred heifers I bought at the Kentucky Simmental Sale a month or so ago. When I vaccinated this week, I used Titanium FP 5 L5 HB. I was afraid to use it on the heifers because I don't know their vaccination history. They may have never been exposed to a MLV Fetal Protection vaccine and the IBR component can cause abortions in cattle not previously exposed to MLV FP in the last 12 months. All my cattle have so no issue there.

I looked through the vaccine case and there was no vaccine for Leptospira that covered Leptospira borgpetersenii or the more common designation Hardjo bovis as abbreviated HB. They had Leptoferm. They had Bovi Shild Gold FP 5 L5, etc.

I mentioned this to their vaccine guy and he said "Oh yes, Leptoferm covers Hardjo." I said yes, "It covers the Species Leptospira hardjo but not the Hardjo bovis serovar". We discussed it for 20 minutes and it was clear that he thought any vaccine that had the word "hardjo" on it covered all the strains.

Leptoferm and Spirovac are both Leptospira vaccines. Both made by Zoetis. But only Spirovac covers Hardjo bovis (Leptospira borgpetersenii). Leptoferm does not.

I showed this to him on my cell phone by looking up the manufacturer's brochure for Spirovac. He had no idea they were different.

In the case of Spirovac, it does not have HB in the name for the vaccine but it does cover HB. Most other vaccines use the "HB" to indicate it covers Hardjo bovis (Leptospira borgpetersenii). For example, all the Bovi Shield Gold products that cover HB use HB at the end of the title. Titanium 5 L5 does, it is listed as Titanium 5 L5 HB.

You just got to wonder how many producers are getting bad information.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:11 pm
by 76 Bar
You just got to wonder how many producers are getting bad information.
Katy bar the door if they're relying on "farm stores" for enlightenment.
I showed this to him on my cell phone by looking up the manufacturer's brochure for Spirovac. He had no idea they were different.
Duh. My point exactly.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:17 pm
by callmefence
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:33 am
I was in a farm supply yesterday looking for Spirovac VL5 or L5. It is produced by Zoetis. I got 2 bred heifers I bought at the Kentucky Simmental Sale a month or so ago. When I vaccinated this week, I used Titanium FP 5 L5 HB. I was afraid to use it on the heifers because I don't know their vaccination history. They may have never been exposed to a MLV Fetal Protection vaccine and the IBR component can cause abortions in cattle not previously exposed to MLV FP in the last 12 months. All my cattle have so no issue there.

I looked through the vaccine case and there was no vaccine for Leptospira that covered Leptospira borgpetersenii or the more common designation Hardjo bovis as abbreviated HB. They had Leptoferm. They had Bovi Shild Gold FP 5 L5, etc.

I mentioned this to their vaccine guy and he said "Oh yes, Leptoferm covers Hardjo." I said yes, "It covers the Species Leptospira hardjo but not the Hardjo bovis serovar". We discussed it for 20 minutes and it was clear that he thought any vaccine that had the word "hardjo" on it covered all the strains.

Leptoferm and Spirovac are both Leptospira vaccines. Both made by Zoetis. But only Spirovac covers Hardjo bovis (Leptospira borgpetersenii). Leptoferm does not.

I showed this to him on my cell phone by looking up the manufacturer's brochure for Spirovac. He had no idea they were different.

In the case of Spirovac, it does not have HB in the name for the vaccine but it does cover HB. Most other vaccines use the "HB" to indicate it covers Hardjo bovis (Leptospira borgpetersenii). For example, all the Bovi Shield Gold products that cover HB use HB at the end of the title. Titanium 5 L5 does, it is listed as Titanium 5 L5 HB.

You just got to wonder how many producers are getting bad information.
Their very lucky to have you as a customer Raven. I'm sure they count their blessings every time you walk in...... :D

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:25 pm
by Bright Raven
callmefence wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:17 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:33 am
I was in a farm supply yesterday looking for Spirovac VL5 or L5. It is produced by Zoetis. I got 2 bred heifers I bought at the Kentucky Simmental Sale a month or so ago. When I vaccinated this week, I used Titanium FP 5 L5 HB. I was afraid to use it on the heifers because I don't know their vaccination history. They may have never been exposed to a MLV Fetal Protection vaccine and the IBR component can cause abortions in cattle not previously exposed to MLV FP in the last 12 months. All my cattle have so no issue there.

I looked through the vaccine case and there was no vaccine for Leptospira that covered Leptospira borgpetersenii or the more common designation Hardjo bovis as abbreviated HB. They had Leptoferm. They had Bovi Shild Gold FP 5 L5, etc.

I mentioned this to their vaccine guy and he said "Oh yes, Leptoferm covers Hardjo." I said yes, "It covers the Species Leptospira hardjo but not the Hardjo bovis serovar". We discussed it for 20 minutes and it was clear that he thought any vaccine that had the word "hardjo" on it covered all the strains.

Leptoferm and Spirovac are both Leptospira vaccines. Both made by Zoetis. But only Spirovac covers Hardjo bovis (Leptospira borgpetersenii). Leptoferm does not.

I showed this to him on my cell phone by looking up the manufacturer's brochure for Spirovac. He had no idea they were different.

In the case of Spirovac, it does not have HB in the name for the vaccine but it does cover HB. Most other vaccines use the "HB" to indicate it covers Hardjo bovis (Leptospira borgpetersenii). For example, all the Bovi Shield Gold products that cover HB use HB at the end of the title. Titanium 5 L5 does, it is listed as Titanium 5 L5 HB.

You just got to wonder how many producers are getting bad information.
Their very lucky to have you as a customer Raven. I'm sure they count their blessings every time you walk in...... :D
:cboy:

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:50 pm
by Jeanne - Simme Valley
Vaccines can be soooo confusing. Sometimes I think they do it on purpose - LOL
Could you use a Cattlemaster product?
Best if you just call the previous owners & find the vaccine history.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:08 pm
by wbvs58
He'd have to be a brave man to get into an argument with this sort of thing with you Ron. I wouldn't.

Ken

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:10 pm
by Bright Raven
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:50 pm
Vaccines can be soooo confusing. Sometimes I think they do it on purpose - LOL
Could you use a Cattlemaster product?
Best if you just call the previous owners & find the vaccine history.
I found Spirovac VL5 at my vet. My objective was to cover them for Leptospira including HB. As soon as they have their calves, I will vaccinate them with Bovi Bovi Shield Gold FP 5. Now that they are covered for Campylobacter fetus and L5 + HB, I can use the BSG FP 5 without lepto.

It does get confusing.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:13 pm
by Bright Raven
wbvs58 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:08 pm
He'd have to be a brave man to get into an argument with this sort of thing with you Ron. I wouldn't.

Ken
He didn't. I have known him for years. In fact, he was honestly happy to get the information. Studies I have read, suggest 80 % of the cases of leptospirosis are caused by HB.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:17 pm
by kenny thomas
If you vaccinate for BVD what do you use for the type 1B? It seems that's the major one in the area and it was stated in a meeting last week that no one had a vaccine for it.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:22 pm
by Bright Raven
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:17 pm
If you vaccinate for BVD what do you use for the type 1B? It seems that's the major one in the area and it was stated in a meeting last week that no one had a vaccine for it.
Bovi Shield Gold FP 5 and all of it's other combinations cover Type 1 and 2 BVD. I will do some looking but I remember reading about Type 1 B. Seems that it has some kind of limitation.

I posted this previously on CT:

There is an article in Cow Country, March 2019. It states that the currently available BVD vaccines including the ones commonly known as the "Fetal Protection" vaccines protect against BVDV 1a and BVDV 2a strains but NOT the BVDV 1b strain. It also states that the "most common strain of BVD virus currently circulating on farms in the United States is BVDV 1b" even though BVDV 1a and BVDV 2a were previously the most prevalent strains.

I use Bovi Shield Gold MLV Fetal Protection vaccine made by Zoetis so I called their Veterinary Services. The Zoetis Veterinarian informed me that even though not stated on the label or in their pamphlet, the BOVI SHIELD GOLD FP 5 and all its various combinations of preparations, provide "an adequate level of protection against BVDV 1b". The component that provides immunity for BVDV 1b is expensive to prepare and has not yet met the regulatory requirements for placing it on the label.

PS: the only vaccine I checked on was Zoetis Bovi Shield Gold. I don't know the status of any other BVD vaccines on the market. My guess would be that the vast majority do no cover strain BVDV 1b and because it is a new addition to the components of the BVD vaccines!


According to that, if you use Bovi Shield Gold FP 5, you also get adequate protection for 1b.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:27 pm
by kenny thomas
BI stated in a meeting last week that the type prevelent now is the 1B and no company had a vaccine for it including them.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:31 pm
by Bright Raven
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:27 pm
BI stated in a meeting last week that the type prevelent now is the 1B and no company had a vaccine for it including them.
I called Zoetis about this. According to their corporate vet, even though it is not affirmed on the label, Bovi Shield Gold FP 5 DOES provide adequate immunity to 1B.

The Zoetis Veterinarian informed me that even though not stated on the label or in their pamphlet, the BOVI SHIELD GOLD FP 5 and all its various combinations of preparations, provide "an adequate level of protection against BVDV 1b". The component that provides immunity for BVDV 1b is expensive to prepare and has not yet met the regulatory requirements for placing it on the label.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:40 pm
by kenny thomas
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:31 pm
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:27 pm
BI stated in a meeting last week that the type prevelent now is the 1B and no company had a vaccine for it including them.
I called Zoetis about this. According to their corporate vet, even though it is not affirmed on the label, Bovi Shield Gold FP 5 DOES provide adequate immunity to 1B.

The Zoetis Veterinarian informed me that even though not stated on the label or in their pamphlet, the BOVI SHIELD GOLD FP 5 and all its various combinations of preparations, provide "an adequate level of protection against BVDV 1b". The component that provides immunity for BVDV 1b is expensive to prepare and has not yet met the regulatory requirements for placing it on the label.
Thank you. Seems if they have it and no other company does they would advertize it

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:43 pm
by Bright Raven
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:40 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:31 pm
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:27 pm
BI stated in a meeting last week that the type prevelent now is the 1B and no company had a vaccine for it including them.
I called Zoetis about this. According to their corporate vet, even though it is not affirmed on the label, Bovi Shield Gold FP 5 DOES provide adequate immunity to 1B.

The Zoetis Veterinarian informed me that even though not stated on the label or in their pamphlet, the BOVI SHIELD GOLD FP 5 and all its various combinations of preparations, provide "an adequate level of protection against BVDV 1b". The component that provides immunity for BVDV 1b is expensive to prepare and has not yet met the regulatory requirements for placing it on the label.
Thank you. Seems if they have it and no other company does they would advertize it
They don't have USDA approval. I was told once the safety and efficacy is determined and approved, they will be permitted to make that assertion on the label.

Re: Hardjo bovis. - HB

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:45 pm
by kenny thomas
Thank you, so at this point no company can prove they have the vaccine?