Double Whammy

Cattle problems.
User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Double Whammy

Post by TCRanch » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:32 pm

Not a good trip to the vet. Noticed one of my cows was walking funny - not limping but with her head lowered and her back slightly hunched. Red flag! Naturally she wasn't anywhere remotely close to where we could move the corral/trailer, especially with all the mud, so I just watched her & took videos. She had a good appetite and otherwise looked okay, nothing obvious, but 2 days ago she was completely away from the herd with her calf and we were finally able to catch them. My suspicion/fear was hardware or anaplasmosis.

Temp 103.4, lungs sound clear, vet didn't feel anything internal (except she's 3-4 months bred) to indicate lymphoma but her heart sounds muffled and he could see her jugular pulse, indicating some cardiac disease. Couldn't specifically pinpoint pericarditis/hardware. And while she's not jaundice, the blood test was positive; she's been exposed to anaplasmosis but does not have an active infection at the moment. Treated her with LA200 and I'm keeping her (and her calf) at the barn for now in case she needs a 2nd treatment.

All my cows, bulls & heifers have a magnet. I'm diligent about spraying for vectors, always have mineral with CTC during fly/tick season, ticks really aren't bad this year and I use disposable needles and syringes (the exception is working a single cow/calf and administering something thick like Resflor Gold and then I'll use a repeater). And it wasn't enough.

Once again, this is me: :bang:



User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10537
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 858 times
Been thanked: 883 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by Bright Raven » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:04 pm

I know anaplasmosis is lurking out there. I wish there were more studies of how prevalent it is in the tick population. There is a guy at Kansas State who has been collecting ticks and was close to reporting how prevalent it is in the tick population out there. I posted a YouTube about his studies that Fire Sweep sent to me. Do you know if he finished his research? He was doing the study as part of the requirements for his PhD.

I hate to hear you had a case.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by TCRanch » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:31 pm

Not sure but I should ask our new vet at the practice because he graduated from K-State last year. Side note: SUCKS losing a vet you absolutely love and "breaking in" a new one! But I only wish our former vet the best as he starts his new adventure as a State Veterinarian. And our new vet grew up on a cattle ranch so he definitely knows cattle, plus he's from here.

We've only had one other documented case of anaplas and that was probably 8 or 9 year ago. Still caught it early enough to be treated (she'd still be a carrier) but sold her anyway.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by TCRanch » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:40 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:04 pm
I know anaplasmosis is lurking out there. I wish there were more studies of how prevalent it is in the tick population. There is a guy at Kansas State who has been collecting ticks and was close to reporting how prevalent it is in the tick population out there. I posted a YouTube about his studies that Fire Sweep sent to me. Do you know if he finished his research? He was doing the study as part of the requirements for his PhD.

I hate to hear you had a case.
Is this the one you're referring to? Good info. And a little scary.
https://www.bovinevetonline.com/article ... iew-part-1

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10537
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 858 times
Been thanked: 883 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by Bright Raven » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:43 pm

TCRanch wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:40 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:04 pm
I know anaplasmosis is lurking out there. I wish there were more studies of how prevalent it is in the tick population. There is a guy at Kansas State who has been collecting ticks and was close to reporting how prevalent it is in the tick population out there. I posted a YouTube about his studies that Fire Sweep sent to me. Do you know if he finished his research? He was doing the study as part of the requirements for his PhD.

I hate to hear you had a case.
Is this the one you're referring to? Good info. And a little scary.
https://www.bovinevetonline.com/article ... iew-part-1
That is not it. I will dig it up. It is here somewhere.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10537
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 858 times
Been thanked: 883 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by Bright Raven » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:16 pm

TCRanch wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:40 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:04 pm
I know anaplasmosis is lurking out there. I wish there were more studies of how prevalent it is in the tick population. There is a guy at Kansas State who has been collecting ticks and was close to reporting how prevalent it is in the tick population out there. I posted a YouTube about his studies that Fire Sweep sent to me. Do you know if he finished his research? He was doing the study as part of the requirements for his PhD.

I hate to hear you had a case.
Is this the one you're referring to? Good info. And a little scary.
https://www.bovinevetonline.com/article ... iew-part-1
Here it is:

"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by TCRanch » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:34 am

Interesting, thanks!

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by TCRanch » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:18 pm

Bringing this up again because I'm now faced with a dilemma.

Initial plan was to sell aforementioned cow after weaning because I didn't want to deal with the very real possibility I'd be raising an orphan next spring. Except she's back to 100%. Or at least it appears that way and I'm with my cattle every day; when something's "off" I notice it.

Is it possible the "cardiac disease" was nothing more than an infection that cleared up with the antibiotics? And while she's been exposed to anaplasmosis is it possible she's only a carrier or has built a resistance? As mentioned earlier, this is a new vet and I don't want to question him - but I do. Not just because she's always been a fave and raises awesome calves but because I just don't have a gut feeling there's anything wrong with her anymore.

What would you do? Thoughts?

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10537
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 858 times
Been thanked: 883 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:51 pm

TCRanch wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:18 pm
Bringing this up again because I'm now faced with a dilemma.

Initial plan was to sell aforementioned cow after weaning because I didn't want to deal with the very real possibility I'd be raising an orphan next spring. Except she's back to 100%. Or at least it appears that way and I'm with my cattle every day; when something's "off" I notice it.

Is it possible the "cardiac disease" was nothing more than an infection that cleared up with the antibiotics? And while she's been exposed to anaplasmosis is it possible she's only a carrier or has built a resistance? As mentioned earlier, this is a new vet and I don't want to question him - but I do. Not just because she's always been a fave and raises awesome calves but because I just don't have a gut feeling there's anything wrong with her anymore.

What would you do? Thoughts?
Cows that recover will likely never relapse into the disease so there is low risk to the cow. She will, however, serve as a source of the bacteria to ticks which act as vectors. To a large extent that can be ameliorated by using parasiticides and permethrin fly control. If you don't reuse needles, she really doesn't pose much of a risk.

I think it comes down to your personal comfort with a cow that is a carrier. So IMO, do whatever you feel comfortable with.

PS. The cardiac issue was only a result of a secondary symptom of the anaplasmosis.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by TCRanch » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:28 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:51 pm
TCRanch wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:18 pm
Bringing this up again because I'm now faced with a dilemma.

Initial plan was to sell aforementioned cow after weaning because I didn't want to deal with the very real possibility I'd be raising an orphan next spring. Except she's back to 100%. Or at least it appears that way and I'm with my cattle every day; when something's "off" I notice it.

Is it possible the "cardiac disease" was nothing more than an infection that cleared up with the antibiotics? And while she's been exposed to anaplasmosis is it possible she's only a carrier or has built a resistance? As mentioned earlier, this is a new vet and I don't want to question him - but I do. Not just because she's always been a fave and raises awesome calves but because I just don't have a gut feeling there's anything wrong with her anymore.

What would you do? Thoughts?
Cows that recover will likely never relapse into the disease so there is low risk to the cow. She will, however, serve as a source of the bacteria to ticks which act as vectors. To a large extent that can be ameliorated by using parasiticides and permethrin fly control. If you don't reuse needles, she really doesn't pose much of a risk.

I think it comes down to your personal comfort with a cow that is a carrier. So IMO, do whatever you feel comfortable with.

PS. The cardiac issue was only a result of a secondary symptom of the anaplasmosis.
That's what I'm looking for, thanks! I think you (personally) know I'm diligent about fly control and use disposable needles, the exception is if I'm treating one cow (or calf, bull) and use the repeater syringe - in which case it's thoroughly sterilized.

This cow is 9 years old and one of the easiest, sweetest cows ever and she's frickin' enormous. Naturally she's only given me a couple heifers. I'm leaning towards she deserves to stay on this ranch - regardless of the outcome.

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10537
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 858 times
Been thanked: 883 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:39 pm

TCRanch wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:28 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:51 pm
TCRanch wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:18 pm
Bringing this up again because I'm now faced with a dilemma.

Initial plan was to sell aforementioned cow after weaning because I didn't want to deal with the very real possibility I'd be raising an orphan next spring. Except she's back to 100%. Or at least it appears that way and I'm with my cattle every day; when something's "off" I notice it.

Is it possible the "cardiac disease" was nothing more than an infection that cleared up with the antibiotics? And while she's been exposed to anaplasmosis is it possible she's only a carrier or has built a resistance? As mentioned earlier, this is a new vet and I don't want to question him - but I do. Not just because she's always been a fave and raises awesome calves but because I just don't have a gut feeling there's anything wrong with her anymore.

What would you do? Thoughts?
Cows that recover will likely never relapse into the disease so there is low risk to the cow. She will, however, serve as a source of the bacteria to ticks which act as vectors. To a large extent that can be ameliorated by using parasiticides and permethrin fly control. If you don't reuse needles, she really doesn't pose much of a risk.

I think it comes down to your personal comfort with a cow that is a carrier. So IMO, do whatever you feel comfortable with.

PS. The cardiac issue was only a result of a secondary symptom of the anaplasmosis.
That's what I'm looking for, thanks! I think you (personally) know I'm diligent about fly control and use disposable needles, the exception is if I'm treating one cow (or calf, bull) and use the repeater syringe - in which case it's thoroughly sterilized.

This cow is 9 years old and one of the easiest, sweetest cows ever and she's frickin' enormous. Naturally she's only given me a couple heifers. I'm leaning towards she deserves to stay on this ranch - regardless of the outcome.
Yes. I know your husbandry practices are stellar. Give her a chance. Considering your practices, the reward is greater than the risk.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by TCRanch » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:10 pm

So, out of the blue my bull breeder called me this morning just to see how the bulls were doing, which turned into an hour long conversation. Absolutely, keep the cow - and her calf. He's familiar with my herd and agreed the cardiac disease was most likely nothing more than a secondary infection.

He also said the anaplasmosis vaccine hasn't been as effective as producers had hoped. Probably because feedback is primarily coming from large producers that are comingling cattle. The upside is that producers are practicing better husbandry skills and are more likely to notice cattle in the early stage(s) while it's still treatable.

Stopped by the vet for weaning vaccines and he asked me how my girl was doing. Well, okay then, let's talk about it. Spot on, BR! :clap: Side note: he's calling in a RX/VFD for Aureomycin when we wean as yet another preventative measure. No way do I want to re-live last year's pneumonia nightmare!

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10537
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 858 times
Been thanked: 883 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by Bright Raven » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:08 am

TCRanch

The tick population at my farm has decreased dramatically since I bought it. I bought the farm in 2003. I was still working in Montana. When I visited my farm, I would be covered in ticks from a walk through the bush. After I retired, I cleared the farm of most of the bush and trees. I still had ticks. I bought the first cows in 2009. I started using parasiticides and permethrin. After 10 years of using parasiticides and permethrin, the tick population has been decimated. I have not found a tick on me in a couple years. The last time I actually had ticks attached to me was when I was fencing in Missouri for Fire Sweep Simmentals. I think you remember this. I got the halo around one of the bites and my doctor decided to treat me for lyme disease.

The only explanations I can find for the extreme decrease in tick populations at this farm is:

1. The extensive clearing of bush. I also disturbed a lot of ground which may have exposed their eggs to the elements. Thus, disrupting their life cycle.

2. The use of parasiticides and permethrin. As the cows walk over the farm and pick up ticks, those ticks die and fail to complete their life cycle.

I have two corgis. I never see a tick on them. When I first bought them, they would often bring ticks into the house. That doesn't happen anymore.

My point is, if the tick population decreases, the primary vector for anaplasmosis is diminished and thus the probability of anaplasmosis. IMO, horseflies are an insignificant vector.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 4150
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 764 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by TCRanch » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:56 am

We haven't done extensive clearing of brush but I've also noticed a huge decrease in ticks; surprising because with all the rain this year I anticipated a surge. But yes, definitely use parasiticides and permethrin. And we have a ton of opossums - a natural tick predator.

76 Bar
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 1:17 pm
Location: South Western Oregon
Has thanked: 307 times
Been thanked: 225 times

Re: Double Whammy

Post by 76 Bar » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:09 pm

He also said the anaplasmosis vaccine hasn't been as effective as producers had hoped.
FWIW IMO The killed vaccine has an exceptionally high level of efficacy when post procurement subsequent storage & inoculation protocol is followed to the letter.

Post Reply