Feeding cows on fescue grass

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Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by garnetann » Fri May 24, 2019 7:31 pm

We have had an extraordinarily wet spring and the pasture we were going to move the cows to has a lot of fescue grass that has gone to seed. When it dries out, we will mow the seed heads off before we turn them out. My first question is there a mineral can we feed them to help fight the fescue fungus. Secondly, does anyone know how long that fungus stays active? Will the cows be ok if the seed heads are on the ground?



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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Fire Sweep Ranch » Fri May 24, 2019 8:45 pm

The fungus is in the plant also, not just the seed heads. You can tell if the seed heads are infected when some of them on the stalk look like mouse poop. Endophyte is more concentrated in the leaves. There is nothing out there to help cows overcome it except dilution! Our fields have orchard and clover planted to help dilute the fungus.
Is this a new field, or one they have grazed in the past? If they have been on it before, you should expect no different results.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Ebenezer » Sat May 25, 2019 7:17 am

Research in VA said to be sure of adequate copper levels in the minerals. Also be sure of adequate zinc, selenium and such. A cheap mineral will not be of great use to you. If there is no dilution in the pasture and your cattle are suffering effects you can buy in commodities or feed and dilute that way but it is not cost effective in the long run. If you are in cattle for the long haul, begin to note cattle that graze when other cattle are in the shade. They will also shed earlier and bred back on time. Keep them and use them for replacements. If you are concerned about hay, the endophyte diminishes in the hay to not be a problem.

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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by T & B farms » Sat May 25, 2019 1:25 pm

I agree with EB. We are 99% fescue here. Like has been said about all you can do is dilute it with another feed, feed a good mineral, and run cows that are adapted to fescue. They are out there. Red clover works well to dilute it here. There are numerous minerals out there made specifically for cows on infected fescue.

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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun May 26, 2019 12:52 am

garnetann wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:31 pm
We have had an extraordinarily wet spring and the pasture we were going to move the cows to has a lot of fescue grass that has gone to seed. When it dries out, we will mow the seed heads off before we turn them out. My first question is there a mineral can we feed them to help fight the fescue fungus. Secondly, does anyone know how long that fungus stays active? Will the cows be ok if the seed heads are on the ground?
We use Gro Tec’s Ag Land Fescue 7 mineral

https://www.gro-tec.com/product-page/ag-land-fescue

This mineral should take care of your fescue issues.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by sim.-ang.king » Sun May 26, 2019 9:02 am

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:52 am
garnetann wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:31 pm
We have had an extraordinarily wet spring and the pasture we were going to move the cows to has a lot of fescue grass that has gone to seed. When it dries out, we will mow the seed heads off before we turn them out. My first question is there a mineral can we feed them to help fight the fescue fungus. Secondly, does anyone know how long that fungus stays active? Will the cows be ok if the seed heads are on the ground?
We use Gro Tec’s Ag Land Fescue 7 mineral

https://www.gro-tec.com/product-page/ag-land-fescue

This mineral should take care of your fescue issues.
You bring this mineral up a lot. What is it part this mineral that makes you believe it is the right mineral for you to use?

I use several different W&R minerals, throughout the year.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun May 26, 2019 5:02 pm

sim.-ang.king wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:02 am
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:52 am
garnetann wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:31 pm
We have had an extraordinarily wet spring and the pasture we were going to move the cows to has a lot of fescue grass that has gone to seed. When it dries out, we will mow the seed heads off before we turn them out. My first question is there a mineral can we feed them to help fight the fescue fungus. Secondly, does anyone know how long that fungus stays active? Will the cows be ok if the seed heads are on the ground?
We use Gro Tec’s Ag Land Fescue 7 mineral

https://www.gro-tec.com/product-page/ag-land-fescue

This mineral should take care of your fescue issues.
You bring this mineral up a lot. What is it part this mineral that makes you believe it is the right mineral for you to use?

I use several different W&R minerals, throughout the year.
I'm assuming that your question is serious, so I will do my best to answer it correctly.

A friend of mine in the cattle business recommended this product to me. I called the company to get more info and the owner told me, I will come to see you and we will discuss your needs. Little old me was impressed with that considering he services commercial herds nationwide far bigger than my operation? He not only stopped by once but made a follow-up visit. On the first visit, I was skeptical, as you are, so I asked him "Why your mineral?" "What's so special, that would get me to switch from Concept Aid Mag/S and Heat?"

Here is what he told me, and Ron may disprove my statements, but he said that not every ingredient in minerals is created equally, for example copper mined in one part of the country has more effect than copper mined elsewhere, specifically when it comes to bioavailability. Again, Ron may skewer me on this. He said that lower price minerals tend to use lower-priced/lower quality inputs. While he is not a PhD. in chemistry or biology, he has them working for him. In fact, if I'm not mistaken he was at Vitaferm before leaving to build his own company. He basically said in a nutshell, that the ingredients that can lessen or eliminate the effects of fescue poisoning were chosen for the highest quality and bioavailability possible. Each ingredient was sourced from higher quality suppliers.

Who am I to argue, I'm no scientist, but I do sniff bullsh.t fairly well, and I appreciate people who can look me directly in the eye when I speak to them. He had total conviction in his product and went over every last detail on the label versus Vitaferm. To date, no one from Vitaferm has made any effort to do the same, and when I left a message for a regional rep to speak with me, no return call. I have a very short fuse for that stuff.

You have probably heard me also speak of the large commercial operator in my county that has around 800+ head. He has run that business for nearly 40 years or more with a lot of success, he knows cattle plain and simple. Was my high school teacher, and college educated to boot. He looked me straight in the eye, and said, "this is the best mineral you can put out for THIS AREA we are in, and I've been using it for 20 years" He would know, his cattle graze fescue, and it's in the hay he feeds out.

There you have it, might not explain it in full detail, but I use it, my cattle have no issues with fescue, and I feel if it works stick to it.

I will get you the owner's cell number if you want to discuss things further with him, he knows far more than I do. He's been running his company for 30 years, most people never hold anything together that long, so his product does have merit.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Bright Raven » Sun May 26, 2019 5:17 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 5:02 pm

Here is what he told me, and Ron may disprove my statements, but he said that not every ingredient in minerals is created equally, for example copper mined in one part of the country has more effect than copper mined elsewhere, specifically when it comes to bioavailability. Again, Ron may skewer me on this. He said that lower price minerals tend to use lower-priced/lower quality inputs. While he is not a PhD. in chemistry or biology, he has them working for him. In fact, if I'm not mistaken he was at Vitaferm before leaving to build his own company. He basically said in a nutshell, that the ingredients that can lessen or eliminate the effects of fescue poisoning were chosen for the highest quality and bioavailability possible. Each ingredient was sourced from higher quality suppliers.

Who am I to argue, I'm no scientist, but I do sniff bullsh.t fairly well, and I appreciate people who can look me directly in the eye when I speak to them. He had total conviction in his product and went over every last detail on the label versus Vitaferm. To date, no one from Vitaferm has made any effort to do the same, and when I left a message for a regional rep to speak with me, no return call. I have a very short fuse for that stuff.

You have probably heard me also speak of the large commercial operator in my county that has around 800+ head. He has run that business for nearly 40 years or more with a lot of success, he knows cattle plain and simple. Was my high school teacher, and college educated to boot. He looked me straight in the eye, and said, "this is the best mineral you can put out for THIS AREA we are in, and I've been using it for 20 years" He would know, his cattle graze fescue, and it's in the hay he feeds out.

There you have it, might not explain it in full detail, but I use it, my cattle have no issues with fescue, and I feel if it works stick to it.

I will get you the owner's cell number if you want to discuss things further with him, he knows far more than I do. He's been running his company for 30 years, most people never hold anything together that long, so his product does have merit.
James.

Copper is an element on the periodic table. This is simple. Does not require more than high school chemistry. Regardless where in the Universe it is found. - it has the same properties. Period. Same is true of all elements in their atomic state.

Now. Listen. What he is saying is that copper is different depending on the compound it comes in. This is true. When I was the Remedial Project Manager on the Butte Montana superfund site, we had to prove that the compound that lead occurred in represented a human health threat. Because lead comes in different "species". This is what your friend is trying to tell you. Lead in yards may harm children in Butte Montana depending on how BIOAVAILABILE it is. We used pigs that were fed the actual soils from yards in Butte to determine how much of the lead was absorbed by the body and how much was excreted.

So, there is a basis for what he said.

Now, regarding the compounds that copper, selenium, zinc, and other minerals are formulated in - I seriously doubt that your mineral is more highly bioavailable than VitaFerm. To decide that - you cannot just spew out words!!! You have to spew out data. You have not done that.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun May 26, 2019 6:12 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 5:17 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 5:02 pm

Here is what he told me, and Ron may disprove my statements, but he said that not every ingredient in minerals is created equally, for example copper mined in one part of the country has more effect than copper mined elsewhere, specifically when it comes to bioavailability. Again, Ron may skewer me on this. He said that lower price minerals tend to use lower-priced/lower quality inputs. While he is not a PhD. in chemistry or biology, he has them working for him. In fact, if I'm not mistaken he was at Vitaferm before leaving to build his own company. He basically said in a nutshell, that the ingredients that can lessen or eliminate the effects of fescue poisoning were chosen for the highest quality and bioavailability possible. Each ingredient was sourced from higher quality suppliers.

Who am I to argue, I'm no scientist, but I do sniff bullsh.t fairly well, and I appreciate people who can look me directly in the eye when I speak to them. He had total conviction in his product and went over every last detail on the label versus Vitaferm. To date, no one from Vitaferm has made any effort to do the same, and when I left a message for a regional rep to speak with me, no return call. I have a very short fuse for that stuff.

You have probably heard me also speak of the large commercial operator in my county that has around 800+ head. He has run that business for nearly 40 years or more with a lot of success, he knows cattle plain and simple. Was my high school teacher, and college educated to boot. He looked me straight in the eye, and said, "this is the best mineral you can put out for THIS AREA we are in, and I've been using it for 20 years" He would know, his cattle graze fescue, and it's in the hay he feeds out.

There you have it, might not explain it in full detail, but I use it, my cattle have no issues with fescue, and I feel if it works stick to it.

I will get you the owner's cell number if you want to discuss things further with him, he knows far more than I do. He's been running his company for 30 years, most people never hold anything together that long, so his product does have merit.
James.

Copper is an element on the periodic table. This is simple. Does not require more than high school chemistry. Regardless where in the Universe it is found. - it has the same properties. Period. Same is true of all elements in their atomic state.

Now. Listen. What he is saying is that copper is different depending on the compound it comes in. This is true. When I was the Remedial Project Manager on the Butte Montana superfund site, we had to prove that the compound that lead occurred in represented a human health threat. Because lead comes in different "species". This is what your friend is trying to tell you. Lead in yards may harm children in Butte Montana depending on how BIOAVAILABILE it is. We used pigs that were fed the actual soils from yards in Butte to determine how much of the lead was absorbed by the body and how much was excreted.

So, there is a basis for what he said.

Now, regarding the compounds that copper, selenium, zinc, and other minerals are formulated in - I seriously doubt that your mineral is more highly bioavailable than VitaFerm. To decide that - you cannot just spew out words!!! You have to spew out data. You have not done that.
Ron, I understand it better after your explanation. Perhaps he feels it is better because of higher ingredient concentrations versus the Vitaferm in the recipe? I just don't know.

There were also other factors that Sim and others need to know. I'm the type of person who pays attention to people who work for my business. The dealer in my town for Vitaferm could not care less if my operation failed or succeeded, he never made any mention of Vitaferm's benefits or anything else for that matter, and that was the owner of the mill. All he said was "Charlie Boyd is using it, so it must be pretty good". Considering that I spent more money than 90% of his clients on a yearly basis with him, I expected way more than that. When I asked him if he would put yeast cultures in his beef mix, he said, "nope, too expensive, and most clients don't care about it anyway" Hence the reason for moving to Southern States for everything, their products were far better, and I wasn't treated like "use this product, it's "good enough" now be quiet"

When the owner of Gro Tec took time to explain things in great detail and earn my business, it was game over, I decided they were neck and neck in quality, with Gro-Tec possibly exceeding the quality. I took into consideration the Vitaferm rep and the mill that sold it couldn't be bothered with coming out and speaking with me, and I took into consideration that my phone calls weren't returned by the regional rep for Vitaferm.

This may not matter to most people, but it's just the way I roll. John Deere got my business recently because the New Holland dealer seemed to be annoyed by simple things that I requested of them. In fact the owner of the New Holland dealer told me, "Netwrap? why would you want that mess, weve always used twine and it's much better" John Deere bent over backward to help me, including the time they spent with me on the learning/setup process. They didn't waste time telling me what I should settle for.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Bright Raven » Sun May 26, 2019 6:21 pm

Understand, I am not criticizing your mineral. From your posts, I feel it is excellent. But it takes a complex study to demonstrate which mineral has the best UPTAKE. It is a function of the compound the element such as zinc, copper, Selenium and so on are in. VitaFerm uses a lot of chelated compounds. There was a thread on this. I think your mineral used a lot of carbonates and sulfates. We both can rest assured that we have good mineral.

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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun May 26, 2019 6:55 pm

Hook2.0 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:20 pm
Anyone else feel like part of the dialogue here is a set up?
Not in the least.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun May 26, 2019 6:56 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:21 pm
Understand, I am not criticizing your mineral. From your posts, I feel it is excellent. But it takes a complex study to demonstrate which mineral has the best UPTAKE. It is a function of the compound the element such as zinc, copper, Selenium and so on are in. VitaFerm uses a lot of chelated compounds. There was a thread on this. I think your mineral used a lot of carbonates and sulfates. We both can rest assured that we have good mineral.

The proof is in the pudding. My cows are performing like a singer sewing machine.
Ron, I'm out of here, this conversation has become too product oriented and some people believe that we are trying to sell our cattle or a product. Best to keep what we do to ourselves.

I agree that proof is in the pudding, and some people don't like that pudding.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun May 26, 2019 6:57 pm

I use the mineral provided by my local Southern States and I urge everyone reading this to do the same.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sun May 26, 2019 6:58 pm

It is Warsaw, KY. Please tell Stewart I sent you so I can get my kickback. Thanks.
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Re: Feeding cows on fescue grass

Post by Bright Raven » Sun May 26, 2019 7:02 pm

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:56 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:21 pm
Understand, I am not criticizing your mineral. From your posts, I feel it is excellent. But it takes a complex study to demonstrate which mineral has the best UPTAKE. It is a function of the compound the element such as zinc, copper, Selenium and so on are in. VitaFerm uses a lot of chelated compounds. There was a thread on this. I think your mineral used a lot of carbonates and sulfates. We both can rest assured that we have good mineral.

The proof is in the pudding. My cows are performing like a singer sewing machine.
Ron, I'm out of here, this conversation has become too product oriented and some people believe that we are trying to sell our cattle or a product. Best to keep what we do to ourselves.

I agree that proof is in the pudding, and some people don't like that pudding.
You are overreacting to a Juvenile Sherlock Holmes. And frequent troll.
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