Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

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Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by JMJ Farms » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:35 pm

We’ve discussed this over and over and over. But I posted a question a few weeks ago in another thread and nobody responded. Let’s pit this one to bed once and for all.

Some have insinuated yes. No one has said no that I can remember.

When banding bigger bull calves (400-600lb), is a single tetanus shot one week prior, and another tetanus shot at the time of banding, sufficient?
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by Banjo » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:42 pm

believe so. I heard a long time cattle man say recently that as long they have had a tetanus and blackleg sometime in their life prior to banding is ok.

That's my opinion.....feel free to make it yours.

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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by Bright Raven » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:45 pm

JMJ Farms wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:35 pm
We’ve discussed this over and over and over. But I posted a question a few weeks ago in another thread and nobody responded. Let’s pit this one to bed once and for all.

Some have insinuated yes. No one has said no that I can remember.

When banding bigger bull calves (400-600lb), is a single tetanus shot one week prior, and another tetanus shot at the time of banding, sufficient?
Mike. We need to define what you mean by tetanus shot.

1. Toxoid. That vaccinates the calf against the toxins produced by Clostridium tetani. It is long term immunity.

2. Antitoxin. That is a short term treatment. For example, a cow/calf steps on a nail.

If you are vaccinating for long term immunization against the toxins using a toxoid, the calf should have 2 shots spaced about 30 days apart for good efficacy.

Thus, you need more time between the shots for satisfactory protection.
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by bball » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:42 am

More specifically, banding of bull calf should occur 14 days after the 2nd dose of toxoid. This allows time for the calf to develop adequate antibodies.
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by wbvs58 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:44 am

As Ron suggested, but I suspect you are talking about a toxoid 1 wk prior and an antitoxin at time of banding???? I believe an antitoxin would be of dubious value with banding as the whole event can take a couple of weeks and the effect of the antitoxin only lasts for about 10 days if my memory serves me correct.

Ken

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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by JMJ Farms » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:19 am

wbvs58 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:44 am
As Ron suggested, but I suspect you are talking about a toxoid 1 wk prior and an antitoxin at time of banding???? I believe an antitoxin would be of dubious value with banding as the whole event can take a couple of weeks and the effect of the antitoxin only lasts for about 10 days if my memory serves me correct.

Ken
Yes Ken. I should have been clearer. Toxoid one week prior. Antitoxin at banding. Even read an old post where a member stated the antitoxin only, at banding, was sufficient. I don’t know what’s sufficient. I do know what the label says. I was just trying to finally get a clear, definitive answer bc this one has always seemed to be all over the board depending on who you ask. Time is always a factor. That’s why I ask.
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by JMJ Farms » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:22 am

Banjo wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:42 pm
believe so. I heard a long time cattle man say recently that as long they have had a tetanus and blackleg sometime in their life prior to banding is ok.
I’ve heard the same thing. Sometimes
I think that I think too much. Just do it. Something will happen. Good or bad. And if it’s bad you’ll remember not to do it again!
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:28 am

JMJ Farms wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:19 am
wbvs58 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:44 am
As Ron suggested, but I suspect you are talking about a toxoid 1 wk prior and an antitoxin at time of banding???? I believe an antitoxin would be of dubious value with banding as the whole event can take a couple of weeks and the effect of the antitoxin only lasts for about 10 days if my memory serves me correct.

Ken
Yes Ken. I should have been clearer. Toxoid one week prior. Antitoxin at banding. Even read an old post where a member stated the antitoxin only, at banding, was sufficient. I don’t know what’s sufficient. I do know what the label says. I was just trying to finally get a clear, definitive answer bc this one has always seemed to be all over the board depending on who you ask. Time is always a factor. That’s why I ask.
I agree with Ken. Giving the antitoxin at banding is like giving an antibiotic for a urinary infection when YOU DON'T HAVE A URINARY INFECTION.

If the calf later developed an infection due to banding, that is when you would administer the antitoxin. I think Ken is right, the antitoxin is good for 10 days or less.

If you really want to be sure, the calf needs to have 2 toxoid shots separated by 30 days before banding. You would probably be ok with out waiting the 14 days suggested by bball because by the time tetanus manifests itself, the antibodies should be at high enough levels.
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by bball » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:43 am

Tetanus can manifest as quickly as 7 days from exposure, hence administering antitoxin at time of banding if not previously vaccinated with 2 doses of toxoid.
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by True Grit Farms » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:21 am

Not the right way but just give a shot of Covexin 8 right before you band or cut. We've done hundreds without any failures, hopefully I haven't just jinxed us. I feel stress plays a big part in having problems with cattle.
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by ChrisB » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:50 am

Like True Grit, I've always given a shot of Covexin 8 when banding and given the second shot 4 weeks later. I know this isn't ideal but haven't had a problem since doing this (20 some years).

That said, I've always understood that tetanus enters the body through an open wound. When banding there isn't an open wound for several weeks anyway. Unless of course you slit the sack to allow the blood to drain. Am I incorrect in my thinking?

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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:53 am

ChrisB wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:50 am
Like True Grit, I've always given a shot of Covexin 8 when banding and given the second shot 4 weeks later. I know this isn't ideal but haven't had a problem since doing this (20 some years).

That said, I've always understood that tetanus enters the body through an open wound. When banding there isn't an open wound for several weeks anyway. Unless of course you slit the sack to allow the blood to drain. Am I incorrect in my thinking?
Correct. If the band is put on without breaking the skin, it will not be open for infection by Clostridium tetani until necrosis occurs. The cut off of circulation causes the necrosis (necrosis can occur more quickly than "several weeks"). Thereby subjecting the tissue for infection by the subject bacteria.

This is why IMO an antitoxin injection at the time of banding has limited value. Because the onset of infection is not going to occur until the tissue is beginning to become necrotic. By then the antitoxin treatment may have worn off. Still a good insurance policy, antitoxin is cheap.
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by 76 Bar » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:29 pm

FWIW in my environment I prefer Cavalry 9 (includes red water) as opposed to Covexin 8. The former is a 2cc SQ dosage (versus 5cc) and I've encountered far less injection site reactions which in the best of circumstances are unfortunately all too common with the assorted clostridial vaccines. Bottom line: adhering to the proper vaccination protocol prior to banding is worth the effort IMO.

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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:08 pm

Covexin 8 also covers Red Water or Bacillary hemoglobinuria.

Cavalry 9 is the same as Covexin 8 except Cavalry 9 covers Clostridium sordellii - malignant oedema. Both made by Merck.

For Information, here is a list of the Clostridial bacteria and the diseases they cause in cattle:

Clostridium perfringens........Enteritis/enterotoxemia
Clostridium septicum..........Malignant edema
Clostridium tetani............Tetanus
Clostridium chauvoei..........Blackleg
Clostridium haemolyticum........Bacillary hemoglobinuria or red water
Clostridium novyi.........Necrotic hepatitis or Black disease

Covexin 8 covers all those. And it covers both Types B, C and D perfringens. Thus how you arrive at the number 8.
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Re: Cattle Related Question - Tetanus

Post by JMJ Farms » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:52 pm

Vet told me today to give Tetanus toxoid at the time of banding. He said that by the time Tetanus manifested that antibody levels would be high enough. I’m not saying he is right. I’m just saying what he said. I think I’m gonna give the toxoid and band tomorrow. Then give antitoxin in 7 days just for insurance and hope it works out. I know it’s not ideal but it’s just how it’s got to be this time. Fingers crossed.
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