TX Shooting

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Dave
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby Dave » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:59 pm

I gathered, sorted and hauled cows today with a rancher friend and his pastor. There was a discussion on packing at church. Both of them said they are going to start packing on Sunday.
This is a reason to sit in the pew at the front of the church. Every church I have ever been in the doors are in the back. The closer you are to the front the further away from a gunman you are. The ones in the back row are sitting ducks. Sit in the front and to one side. That way if he is aiming at the pastor you aren't in the line of fire. Where you sit has as much to do with survival as what you are packing. The first 4-8 people are dead before anyone has time to react.
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby Ryder » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:03 pm

gizmom wrote:I have a concealed carry permit I have not asked permission to carry at church I just carry and pray I never have to let anyone at church realize that I do. We live in a world that requires us to be prepared to face evil and I don’t want my last vision to be looking at some crazy person with a gun and me wishing I had one. I may be a little old lady but I am a gun toting one.

Gizmom

Reminds me of the story of the 90 year old lady that was pulled over for speeding.
The trooper asked her if she had a gun in the car.
Yes, she said. I have a .45 on the seat beside me. A 9mm under the seat, and a .357 in the glove compartment along with a .38 in my purse.
The trooper asked, "My gosh lady. What are you afraid of?"
She replied, "Not a dam thing."
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snoopdog
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby snoopdog » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:14 pm

It's just sad when you have to carry a gun to church . I remember the words the preacher said when I was baptized "hold your breath ", didn't , and I spit and sputtered and coughed up some water , but I KNEW I wouldn't drown .
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby wacocowboy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:19 am

I saw where this POS cracked his son’s skull shame someone didn’t return the favor when that happened.
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby HDRider » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:31 am

As sad as this tragedy is, at least we know it was the result of mental illness, by someone that should have been locked up before this.

I still have not heard why the LV shooter rained down on those folks.
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True Grit Farms
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:29 am

Whoever signed off or didn't do their job reporting him as mentally ill in the Air Force needs to be held responsible. We the people owe those families that had loved one's killed in that church. The system failed them and the law didn't protect them. It's very sad to think we have atheist walking among us that think like he did.
The fact is, guns don't kill people, people kill people.
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True Grit Farms
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby True Grit Farms » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:51 am

Dave wrote:I gathered, sorted and hauled cows today with a rancher friend and his pastor. There was a discussion on packing at church. Both of them said they are going to start packing on Sunday.
This is a reason to sit in the pew at the front of the church. Every church I have ever been in the doors are in the back. The closer you are to the front the further away from a gunman you are. The ones in the back row are sitting ducks. Sit in the front and to one side. That way if he is aiming at the pastor you aren't in the line of fire. Where you sit has as much to do with survival as what you are packing. The first 4-8 people are dead before anyone has time to react.

I don't agree with your assessment at all Dave, but I can see the thinking behind the thoughts. I always sit at the back of the church off to the side, and will continue to. In a close up setting, when I can wear a jacket or sport coat I don't feel out gunned by someone with a rifle. I might just sit there and wet my pants for all I know, because I honestly don't know how I'd react, and I really don't want to find out.
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby ChrisB » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:12 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:Whoever signed off or didn't do their job reporting him as mentally ill in the Air Force needs to be held responsible. We the people owe those families that had loved one's killed in that church. The system failed them and the law didn't protect them. It's very sad to think we have atheist walking among us that think like he did.
The fact is, guns don't kill people, people kill people.


I agree the system failed but whether or not it would have made a difference is unknown. If he wanted a gun I'm guessing someone like him would have found a way to get one. If he couldn't have gotten a gun, maybe today people are talking about how it's too easy to get materials to make bombs, etc. I'm sure whoever dropped the ball in the Air Force feels sick about this, but they aren't the person responsible for what happened.
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Ky hills
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby Ky hills » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:42 pm

From what I have read on this, it looks like to me that the ball was dropped several different times in several different situations. I read that he had escaped from a mental health facility after he was discharged dishonorably. My question is why in the world wasn't he at least sent back to a facility. He was discharged for spouse and child abuse. With what he admitted to doing to his stepchild he should not have been able to freely walk the streets.
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby danl » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:41 pm

The military must have got soft. The reason he was in the mental hospital was because he was caught sneaking weapons on base to kill military superiors. Would have thought they would have locked him up and threw away the key.
It's bad the military dropped the ball, but I agree he still would have found a different way legal ar-15 or not.
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby Caustic Burno » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:48 am

Again legal or illegal the nuts are drawn to the assault type weapons.
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby True Grit Farms » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:25 am

Caustic Burno wrote:Again legal or illegal the nuts are drawn to the assault type weapons.

The man that stopped the killings used an AR type rifle himself, and he is far from nuts. Well maybe he's a little nuts for not having his AR loaded and 15 or 20 extra magazines loaded and ready for a fight. He still did great, but the killer should of never been able to leave the scene.
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby greybeard » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:55 am

danl wrote:Didn't think you could buy a gun if you were dishonorable discharged... Think that is one of the questions.

He didn't receive a dishonorable discharge. He got a bad conduct discharge, and a BCD is completely diferent than a dishonorable discharge.

The reporting part is not quite as black and white as it might seem. It's a given that USAF has admitted they dropped the ball on reporting to the FBI..that is already established, but what is not clear, is where the ball was dropped.

Tho they haven't released much details, and have basically left whoever was supposed to do the reporting to FBI as an un-named scapegoat, I suspect the ball was dropped at the end of the sentencing phase of the court martial itself. I'll explain:

There IS a blanket law for any service member that receives a dishonorable discharge, in regards to ability to legally purchase a firearm, as a dishonorable discharge is the result from conviction of a crime that is equivalent to a felony in the civilian world. That, is cut and dried--get a dishonorable discharge and you can't legally purchase or own a firearm--period.

Not so in the case of a bad conduct discharge, which is the type discharge this scumbag received. Or at least not 'always' the case with bad conduct discharges.
Bad conduct discharge is usually the result of the military version of a civilian misdemeanor, but there are some convictions resulting from more serious misdemeanor level crimes that still get just a bad conduct discharge, especially if the defendant pleas out, which this guy did. It's up to the convening authority (the court martial board) to direct that the paperwork include wording that directs whoever is supposed to report to the FBI, to do so..otherwise, that 'reporter' person(s) just sees 'bad conduct' and doesn't forward any paperwork to the FBI database.
In addition, one of the premises for reporting is that the defendant get MORE than 12 months prison sentence. This one didn't..he got exactly "12 months confinement".
Someone in USAF did drop the ball, but it's anything but clear exactly who..probably someone a lot higher up the chain than some desk jockey 2 striper--perhaps the court martial presiding officer (judge) himself..

The Air Force tells CBS News Kelley's case was a general court martial, the most serious level of military trial proceedings, reserved for allegations similar to felonies in civilian jurisdictions.

While personnel tried under general court martial can be subject to dishonorable discharge, Kelley received the less severe bad conduct discharge.

The use of a general court martial, as opposed to the less serious special court martial, is a sign that the initial charges against Kelley carried the potential for both dishonorable discharge and more than a year in confinement, said Benjamin Spencer, a Professor of Law at the University of Virginia who currently serves as a reserve officer in the Judge Advocate General's Corps of the U.S. Army.

"They key difference between dishonorable discharge and bad conduct, as kind of a rule of thumb, is that a bad conduct discharge is for behavior that rises to the level of a misdemeanor, and a dishonorable discharge rises to the level of a felony," Spencer told CBS News on Monday. "The place where this gets relevant to something like firearms is that a dishonorable discharge gets treated like a felony conviction."

Federal law prohibits those who have been dishonorably discharged from buying a firearm, but the law does not include a blanket prohibition on those who have received a bad conduct discharge. However, certain types of bad conduct discharges can stem from cases that would bar defendants from purchasing firearms.

Texas and federal laws prohibit those with domestic violence convictions from owning firearm. The military is supposed to report to the FBI, for the purposes of prohibiting firearm purchases, convictions on domestic violence charges, as well as convictions that carry maximum potential sentences of more than a year in confinement.
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Caustic Burno
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby Caustic Burno » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:31 am

True Grit Farms wrote:
Caustic Burno wrote:Again legal or illegal the nuts are drawn to the assault type weapons.

The man that stopped the killings used an AR type rifle himself, and he is far from nuts. Well maybe he's a little nuts for not having his AR loaded and 15 or 20 extra magazines loaded and ready for a fight. He still did great, but the killer should of never been able to leave the scene.



Doesn’t matter the guy could have used a lever 30-30 just as well to stop him. The days of purchasing an AR type weapon are coming to an end. I look to see the assault ban take effect again in the next few years. 100% sure of it if the houses and POTUS turn blue.

The part you don’t get is we are not the majority anymore.
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Re: TX Shooting

Postby danl » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:07 am

I can't believe the military dropped the weapons charge, smuggling guns onto a base with intent to kill officers seems like something that doesn't get dropped.
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