Heat Tolerant Bulls

[Red Bull Breeder]

What makes you think that the f1 bull would add hybrid vigor to cross bred cows?? The people with the Char cows just need to add a few miles to their search. There is char bulls some where.

[brihop]

Correct that a PB bull over true F1 cows (of different breeds than the bull) would provide 25% more heterotosis to the calf crop than F1 x F1. I was thinking the vigor of the bull, not the calf crop... of course crop is more important though.

Speaking of HV, some big outfits like Adams Ranch and King Ranch are doing RA/GV composites with Gert and Braford... RAxBraf X GVxBraf. & RAxGert X GVxGert. Seems to me that theres not enough brahman blood in there, not only for heat tolerance, but I thought that cows needed at least 25% brahman blood to be able to restrict the birth weight of their calves. Also, curious about the point of doing that final cross which brings the RA & GV blood together, isn't HV is only diminishing? If they really wanted to bring all the breeds together then why not cut to the chase and put a balancer bull over the braf or gert cows and be done with it?

Sorry 'bout the rambling thread here!

[brimmer X]

So far I like the cross of the Braunvieh on Charolais. My steers sold well this year, and have held back all my heifers except a pair of twins. I think they'll make good replacements, they're hippy and have held there own considering our pasture situation. Colorwise, most will be white, tan, or pale yellow with a dark nose. I'll try to post some pictures soon. There is a ranch in Kansas that has used the cross to increase the milking ability of their charolaise. If they go back with a Char bull I'd bet all calves would look charolaise. Double R ranch I believe is the one using that cross.

[KNERSIE]

So far I like the cross of the Braunvieh on Charolais. My steers sold well this year, and have held back all my heifers except a pair of twins. I think they'll make good replacements, they're hippy and have held there own considering our pasture situation. Colorwise, most will be white, tan, or pale yellow with a dark nose. I'll try to post some pictures soon. There is a ranch in Kansas that has used the cross to increase the milking ability of their charolaise. If they go back with a Char bull I'd bet all calves would look charolaise. Double R ranch I believe is the one using that cross.

Maybe they should have charolais cows, but use charolais bulls instead?

[JSCATTLE]

They run char. Bulls here in the rice fields and marsh . They look like crap when they pull the bulls in October . They go on feed until march and then back with the cows .

[KNERSIE]

So far I like the cross of the Braunvieh on Charolais. My steers sold well this year, and have held back all my heifers except a pair of twins. I think they'll make good replacements, they're hippy and have held there own considering our pasture situation. Colorwise, most will be white, tan, or pale yellow with a dark nose. I'll try to post some pictures soon. There is a ranch in Kansas that has used the cross to increase the milking ability of their charolaise. If they go back with a Char bull I'd bet all calves would look charolaise. Double R ranch I believe is the one using that cross.

Maybe they should have charolais cows, but use charolais bulls instead?

OOPS, meant to say maybe they should NOT have charolais cows, but use charolais bulls instead?

[brihop]

So far I like the cross of the Braunvieh on Charolais. My steers sold well this year, and have held back all my heifers except a pair of twins. I think they'll make good replacements, they're hippy and have held there own considering our pasture situation. Colorwise, most will be white, tan, or pale yellow with a dark nose. I'll try to post some pictures soon. There is a ranch in Kansas that has used the cross to increase the milking ability of their charolaise. If they go back with a Char bull I'd bet all calves would look charolaise. Double R ranch I believe is the one using that cross.

I'd definitely like to see those pics, as I think that would be good cross. I've always thought a Char bull was over F1 Braunbray cows would be great. I know someone with a 14 month old Braunvieh bull for sale if you're interested. Hes an embryo transfer bull, so must be good genetics. Message me if interested and I'll give you his #, hes in North Florida, near Lake City.

[brimmer X]

Brihop,thanks for the offer on the bull, but I have a good full blood bull now. He is just a 4 year old. I was unable to get pictures this weekend, but maybe this week. So far, the braunvieh and the charolaise have taken the heat pretty well so far. It is the worst I have ever seen, this early in the year. So far just about an 1inch of rain in june, less than that in May. I have reduced my cow heard by third.
Knersie, you are probably right about using a Char bull on Bruanvieh cows. In a perfect situation, I would have all bruanvieh cows, with lots of options for a cross. This drought has put me a little closer to having just bruanvieh cows or there cross.

[jilleroo]

We run a charolais herd in extreme conditions in outback Australia and have no heat-related issues with our cattle. Charolais tolerate the heat very well, even with humidity. Angus handle these conditions very poorly. We joined about 300 heifers a year to senepol bulls for several years and have found an eager market for their progeny. The bulls are certainly keen workers but fight mightily also - one pure senepol fellow snapped a front leg fighting but still soldiered on getting calves! His leg has healed crooked but it hasnt slowed him down at all.

Some of you would be aware that the Australian Agricultural Company has a couple of composite "breeds" incorporating senepol and use these extensively on their northern country. We bought a 100 first-calvers from them last year, calving to char x senepol bulls, and are very happy with these hardy females and the calves they produced. I might add they weaned 98 calves and not one had been assisted.

We have also bred some handy little bulls by senepol out of pure red brahmans females for our own use and these will be ready to work this next joining also.

Nothing wrong with senepols!

[VLS_GUY]

Jilleroo,

Your post brings up an interesting question: perhaps the Senepol is not being used in combination with the right breeds. I have seen some of the Senepol Char cross bulls and they appear to be impressive; better than some half Char Charbray bulls I have seen.
I would like to know if you have seen any other Continental breeds crossed with Senepol?

[jilleroo]

No, VLS, can't say I have seen any sene x continental crosses other than with char. There's quite a few senegus bulls getting around now though, popular with ppl to join with heifers in the hotter climes. Friends nearby have just bought senelais bulls to put over one mob of their santa and droughtmaster cows - we will be interested to see what those calves look like. I must stress we only use them over heifers - we join our cow herd to pure char and the right sort of charbray if we can get it.
Our senelais heifers mainly get snapped up as future breeders - I'd love to retain a line of them one day, they'd be ideal mothers and good foragers.

[novatech]

In the summer southern heat most of the breeding goes on at night, even purebred Brahman.

[andybob]

http://grist.org/food/home-on-the-range ... stainably/

These are the cattle which form the basis of the breeding program;
http://sangacattle.webs.com/apps/photos ... d=13579858

[Massey135]

Hybrid vigor is maximized at the 3rd cross.

Use F1 females.

NEVER use a crossbred bull.

Inject growth from the sire.

Memorize this, folks. If you're not adhering to these fundamental principles, you're leaving money on the table.

[brihop]

Yep, I've decided that the only F1s I'm going to use will be purchased heifers, brahman X maternal continental breed (like Sim, Gelb or Braunvieh- whichever becomes available). Found someone with brahman cows not too far away that has the ability to AI, hoping to work out an arrangement where I purchase the straws and buy the resulting heifer calves. Then I'd get to pick between Simm, Gelb or Braun. I know the cross is a bit backwards, should be English/Brahman F1 cow bred to terminal continental bull, but going to stick to PB Black Angus bulls for the next few years. Will also keep PB Angus cows that I have now, will just add some F1 cows to the herd. I might retain some of the heifer calves of the F1s as replacements, as they'll be great brood cows too.