Bulls for heifers – size and birth weight

[Ozhorse]

We join our black angus heifers at 12 to 14 months old. Last season a gate got opened and there were 4 bulls and one heifer with a broken hip in together. My older low birth weight bull damaged his hip in with the young girls and later I noticed there is another heifer not looking right in the hips. So I think I have broken two heifers and one bull putting older bulls over heifers. This is not cheap.

Since the drought is over bulls are really expensive (Australia). I have 40 heifers for this 2012 spring. I am thinking of getting two yearling bulls with low birth weight figures for them. I don’t want to have to start pulling calves. Bulls with low birth weight figures and high growth figures probably cost more than I can justify at the moment.

I thought I would start asking a few simple questions on this board while I work myself up to where I am trying to go with the whole herd but each time I do I keep getting back to where I am going with the whole herd anyway – So I will start another thread on that.

So, do other people have problems with big bulls over heifers?
Do you keep special heifer bulls?
What do you look for in a heifer bull?
Do you try to use lighter weight (yearling) bulls over heifers?
What do you do with the calves from low birth weight bulls/heifers and the bull himself when he gets older and heavy?

[bigbull338]

once a bull gets to weigh 2000lbs or more he isnt a heifer bull.an he can cause probs with mature cows as well.so the heavy bulls need tobe sold an replaced.you want a calving ease bull to breed your heifers to.i even watch the calving ease when im putting a bull with cows.yes you can keep heifers out of young bulls an 1st calf heifers.the heifers may not wean as heavy of a calf as the cows will.

[Galloway2]

We use our 2,500 lb herd bull on yearling heifers and cows.

I keep as many heifers out of 1st calf heifers as possible.

I don't select or use single trait bulls on anything.

[bigbull338]

We use our 2,500 lb herd bull on yearling heifers and cows.

I keep as many heifers out of 1st calf heifers as possible.

I don't select or use single trait bulls on anything.

we used to use a 3000lb plus holstein bulls on our milk cows to.but we got lucky that he never crippled or broke a cows back.

[vclavin]

Our herd bulls this time are 2200lbs+. Vet said heifers need to be about 1000lbs to support the weight. Last herd bulls was 2790lbs. (Black Angus)
We only use and breed for low birthweight calving ease bulls with growth . Vet does pelvic exams on bulls and heifers to determine pelvic size so we can make sure we have no calving problems but also to make sure they stay in a proper range. Same bulls are used on cows and heifers.
Valerie

[3waycross]

Our herd bulls this time are 2200lbs+. Vet said heifers need to be about 1000lbs to support the weight. Last herd bulls was 2790lbs. (Black Angus)
We only use and breed for low birthweight calving ease bulls with growth . Vet does pelvic exams on bulls and heifers to determine pelvic size so we can make sure we have no calving problems but also to make sure they stay in a proper range. Same bulls are used on cows and heifers.
Valerie

Really Val!!!!!!!!! You breed heifers with a 2750lb bull....all I can say is.......................

[dun]

Our herd bulls this time are 2200lbs+. Vet said heifers need to be about 1000lbs to support the weight. Last herd bulls was 2790lbs. (Black Angus)
We only use and breed for low birthweight calving ease bulls with growth . Vet does pelvic exams on bulls and heifers to determine pelvic size so we can make sure we have no calving problems but also to make sure they stay in a proper range. Same bulls are used on cows and heifers.
Valerie

Really Val!!!!!!!!! You breed heifers with a 2750lb bull....all I can say is.......................

Our old bull weighed 2450 when he went through the sale ring and he bred about a dozen heifers with no bad results. A lot depends on the bull. When he bred the cow/heifer never was pushed forward enough or had enough weight on them to sag. The bull before him would ride every cow to the ground, the second bull was more athletic then the other one. The second bulls son is the same as his dad, but if a cow is in heat on the other side of a fieldwire fence he will mount her over/through the fence.

[Taurus]

Never had any issues with our 2,000+lbs Black Angus bull on our heifers, especially the belted galloway heifers. Funny thing is that I never pull any calves out of our belted cattle, especially these heifers. I pulled two calves (both are large bulls) out of our black angus heifers last year but this year the same sire bull decided to give our heifers smaller calves and no birth issues this time.

[wbvs58]

Oz, I didn't quiet get the gist of what happened but take it that 4 bulls got in with the heifers. I think that your problem was that you had a bit of an orgy going there, 4 bulls competing over a couple of heifers on heat at one time. Little wonder that you had some injuries. I doubt you would have had problems had just one bull got in.
I always make sure that there are at least 2 hot fences between my bulls and heifers and cows for that matter. As well I try and keep females out of direct eyesight of the bulls, it makes for better behaved bulls and less pressure on the fences, just don't give them the idea. Once they realise they can get into that candy shop, it is very hard to keep them out.
Ken

[Ozhorse]

Ken

There were two different incidents.

Yep, one was a problem with two smashed gates and a fence and 4 bulls, understandable that was an accident injury to that heifer.

The second situation was that I put a 6 yo Angus bull (moderate to lower end body size, not fat. ) in with the heifers and he was fine one day, hip gone the next. (I just checked the figures and that bull dressed out at 468kg which is 1031 lb so I guess his live weight might be double that (?)). At preg testing we noticed that other one of the heifers has a hip problem and will have to be culled out. I also noticed that when any older bull rode the heifers he would sometimes end up with them on the ground, and even if they did not end up on the ground it was obvious that was only by chance.

We are trying to build up numbers after the drought. We have 40 heifers to join this year and hopefully 60 next year. I think it might be a numbers game, if you put an older bull over 12 heifers you would probably get away with it as I have in the past.