Gelbvieh

[Massey135]

well I think you're wrong. tag your it!

[Cross breeder #1]

my balancer X cows will be bred to a carcass and growth angus

[3waycross]

my balancer X cows will be bred to a carcass and growth angus

Good plan!

[Massey135]

my balancer X cows will be bred to a carcass and growth angus

Good plan!

Which will result in breed regression; the opposite of hybrid vigor.

[Stocker Steve]

Here he is. His dtrs are easy keepers and they wean off good calves.

http://www.bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=4

Looks impressive.
How big are his daughters?
Do you use him on heifers?

[Stocker Steve]

my balancer X cows will be bred to a carcass and growth angus

I think Angus makes a great terminal cross. At the last bull sale I saw some really wide stout BA bulls sell cheap because they were +3 for BW...

[3waycross]

my balancer X cows will be bred to a carcass and growth angus

Good plan!

Which will result in breed regression; the opposite of hybrid vigor.

But breeding baldies to a Herfeford doesn't? You should go back and read your own posts before you speak "O Great and Wise" one.

He is breeding for replacements and even you know that the Brit/Continental cross gives you the most hybred vigor and longevity and with the Gelbvieh MATERNAL.

What he breeds those cows to for terminal doesn't matter as far as breed regression. Hence the word TERMINAL

However if he does what he says he will be breeding growth and carcass into his terminal calves. Wow there's a novel concept! Even you should be able to understand that. A 1/4 Continental calf with lots of growth and high marbling. I bet there ain't a feedlot operater in America who wants that kind of animal!

[Cross breeder #1]

i agree w/ 3way and dont want herfords. has anyone ever heard of a high growth rate herf
???

[Massey135]

Yes there are terminal herefords too.

The reason I suggested using either Angus of hereford for replacements is because you said you already have baldie cows. I will always give up a little hybrid vigor in years I'm keeping replacemts in order to 1) limit the number of breeds in the momma cow and 2) stabilize the genetics in the cow herd. By using hereford or angus, your replacements will be 3/4 one way or the other. Then you can use a bull of the 3rd breed for the terminal cross. This calf will be a 3 way cross- which maximizes the vigor. The f1 momma is obviously most ideal but 3/4 is the next best.

I would never come back over the cows with a bull thats breed was already in my cow heard if maximum performance/hybrid vigor was my goal.

[TexasBred]

If your cows are black (angus) or bwf (baldies ie Angus x hereford) I woud suggest either going back with a Hereford or an angus in order to more stabalize the genetics youre working with. then use the continental breeds- charolais,limo,gelbvieh,blonde,simm when your looking for maximum lbs out of your calf calf, not when your trying to make momma cows.

I know I hate generalities and platitudes as much as anyone but for a beginner seeking a new bull- these generatlities still hold pretty much true.

You are wrong!

Again?? Nothing new under the sun.

[dun]

Of the contintal breeds both Gelbvieh and Simmenthal are considred maternal as well as terminal. It's sure work well for us through the years.

[Massey135]

If your cows are black (angus) or bwf (baldies ie Angus x hereford) I woud suggest either going back with a Hereford or an angus in order to more stabalize the genetics youre working with. then use the continental breeds- charolais,limo,gelbvieh,blonde,simm when your looking for maximum lbs out of your calf calf, not when your trying to make momma cows.

I know I hate generalities and platitudes as much as anyone but for a beginner seeking a new bull- these generalities still hold pretty much true.

You are wrong!

Again?? Nothing new under the sun.

You're both a couple democrats.. you point out the problem but offer no solution.

[3waycross]

You are wrong![/quote]

Again?? Nothing new under the sun. [/quote]
You're both a couple democrats.. you point out the problem but offer no solution.[/quote]

it was offered; you just didn't hear it, because it wasn't your solution and you also needed an excuse to hijack the thread, you wingnut. As far as Democrats. I have been a member of the Republican Central Connittee for the last 3 years. I always have a solution and even when I am not right(which is never) I am ALWAYS sure.

[Massey135]

Your solution resulted in a 4way cross calf. Mine resulted in a 3 way cross. We all know hybrid vigor is maximized at the 3 rd cross. Ironic being that your handle is ideed "3waycross"

[ANAZAZI]

Your solution resulted in a 4way cross calf. Mine resulted in a 3 way cross. We all know hybrid vigor is maximized at the 3 rd cross. Ironic being that your handle is ideed "3waycross"

In my world, a 3way and a 4way adds up to the same as long as it has a purebred sire contributing 50% of the genetics.