Angus Info

[Brandonm22]

Just looking at the Select Sires Catalog that would make 1I2, Total, Cloudburst, 6EM6, 6656, Accord, Nine Iron, Game On, Selective, Silverado, User Friendly, Integrity, 4612, Outlook, Solution, Prime Design, Simplicity, Redirect, 4L60, Big Eye, Grid Maker, 2 878, 5050, Retail Design, and Preeminent all suspect as Precision 1680 descendents.

And according to Angus Assn, 47 of the 48 calves they have looked at have had Precision 1680 on BOTH sides of the pedigree, which is pretty d*mning evidence.

http://angus.org/aaa_notice.pdf

[RD-Sam]

I just hope it doesn't go any further back than that, cause I have Bando 155 in everything I own!

[Brandonm22]

You would think that it would have shown up before now if it was Bando 155.

[Oldtimer]

Just looking at the Select Sires Catalog that would make 1I2, Total, Cloudburst, 6EM6, 6656, Accord, Nine Iron, Game On, Selective, Silverado, User Friendly, Integrity, 4612, Outlook, Solution, Prime Design, Simplicity, Redirect, 4L60, Big Eye, Grid Maker, 2 878, 5050, Retail Design, and Preeminent all suspect as Precision 1680 descendents.

And according to Angus Assn, 47 of the 48 calves they have looked at have had Precision 1680 on BOTH sides of the pedigree, which is pretty d*mning evidence.

http://angus.org/aaa_notice.pdf

This is what I came up with off one site...Like the article says- it takes the right gene combination to even show up and none may be carriers...Be good when they get the DNA test up and running and can tell which are and which aren't carriers..And if any of the ancestors were carriers- or how far back it goes, as with AI today there is still semen for some of those oldies laying around in tanks...

Notable Offspring


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Black Velvet Precision 1344 - AI Sire
C A Future Direction 5321 - AI Sire
Semen averaged $450 at Falcon Seaboard Dispersal
E&B 1680 Precision 1023 - AI Sire
G A R Precision 9296 - AI Sire
GAR Yield Grade - AI Sire
KCF Bennett K503 ET - AI Sire
LD Exactly 1912 - AI Sire
Major League - AI Sire
Mytty In Line - AI Sire
Ranger G 1720 - AI Sire
Southern BCS Champ 3592 - AI Sire
Sydgen Prestige 1316 - AI Sire
Twin Valley Precision E161 - AI Sire
W C C Cut Above N24 - AI Sire
White Oak Precise 6002 - AI Sire
Whitestone Precision H141 - AI Sire

Maternal Sire of ACF Bushman 1132 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of ACF New Design 0321 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of B L R Russ 9082 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of E F Eston - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of G A R 1407 New Design G803 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of G A R ALL AROUND S531 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of G A R Henry 5682 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of G A R Honesty 7092 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of G A R New Design 5110 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of G A R Perspective 8355 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of G A R Prediction - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of G A R User Friendly - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of GAR Integrity - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Lawsons GAR Fair Dinkum Z197 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of MOGCK Security 643 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of New Design G 2114 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of RAB GAR Carney Man 4312L - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Rito 1I2 of 2536 Rito 686 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Rito 3838 of 2536 BVND 878 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Rito 4S5 OF 2536 SA - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Rito 5M44 of 2536 PRED - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Rito 5T4 of 2536 Integrity - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Rito 6S8 of 2536 SA - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Riverbend Tru-Test 4053 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of S A V Front Runner 0713 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Silveiras El Capitan 6510 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of TC Total 410 - AI Bull
Maternal Sire of Whitestone Tiger T159 - AI Bull
http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/GAR+P ... +1680.aspx

[Brandonm22]

IF this is a simple recessive gene; then 50% of Precision 1680's progeny ARE carriers. He has 5050 registered ANGUS daughters in production (and who knows how many commercial daughters and composite daughters). ~2525 of those daughters would be carriers and half of those 2525 daughters' progeny would be carriers. Ditto with all of his sons. The math is simple if the genetics are that simple. There are a lot more informed posters here than me on genetics; but it looks to me like from the "little evidence" we have here that this IS a simple recessive.

[Oldtimer]

I'm just glad that Gardiners and AAA are being as open with it as they are- and hope they keep everyone updated... There has been too many breed associations/breeders that have denied and buried defects or mutations for years until they about brought down the integrity of the breed...

At least they are working on this- and it gives a guy some ideas of where "not" to go until they are sure.....

[Frankie]

GAR Pecision certainly had some good carcass qualities and his sons would gain in feed test. But because of his weaning weight and scrotal, I never could understand his popularity. A few years ago, his semen was selling for big bucks. I was congratulating myself this morning for not having any 1680 influence in the herd until I thought about Midland. We've got several heifers by him this year. Oops. I hope the test is available early next year as they expect.

You can't hide this stuff. They've got to figure it out and the breeders have to stop using cattle that are carrying the defect. As they said, because of scientific advancements, we don't necessarily have to stop using every animal from that bloodline. We'll just have to test the ones we want to use and be sure they're clean. We can do that.

[Brandonm22]

This is not as bad as dwarfism was where whole cow families had to be abandoned. They will get some kind of DNA test. That will let you identify the carriers and plan your matings accordingly. That way you can utilize the best of Precision's genetics without spreading the lethal recessive gene. The bad news is that this gene is probably all over the black commercial cow world by now so Angus breeders are going to have to have the intestinal fortitude too cut some bulls that otherwise would bring good $$$s to prevent their commercial customers from having dead calves popping up when Precision descended bulls breed Precision descended commercial cows and a lot of commercial ranches don't even KNOW the sire much less the pedigree of their ~10 year old cows.

[Oldtimer]

From what I understand this could affect the red angus too- as Precision was recently allowed in the red angus cattle...

[Frankie]

From what I understand this could affect the red angus too- as Precision was recently allowed in the red angus cattle...

And who knows about other black breeds? I assume they're keeping track of which Angus bulls they're using to turn those breed black?

[Brandonm22]

"Well quit line breeding those lines and see what happens."

You can certanly avoid the dead calves with that; but the problem is that an awful lot of people now have herds that probably are carrying a lethal recessive through many/most of the cows. For commercial herds of this might be a good time to go Hereford (Charlais, Salers, etc) on the Angus based cows.

[RD-Sam]

I only have semen in the tank on one bull from the 1680 line, and it was going to be a while before I used it, guess that gives me plenty of time to see if that one is a carrier or not. Didn't have any plans to line breed on 1680, it was going to be used for another line breeding though.

I looked at 1680 and he is just a little over 3% inbreeding factor, from what I gather they like to keep the cattle under 6%, so he is well inline on that. If he is the problem it's just a twist of fate that the genes lined up wrong in his breeding. It's very common in dogs and other animals to have inbreeding factors in the 25% range, so it's not like it's a severely inbred situation in this case.

[RD-Sam]

I'll bet you can find common cattle in all of your pedigrees, and they would still be line bred, just very distant. The percentage is where you can get in trouble, depending on the quality of the animals.

[EAT BEEF]

I only have semen in the tank on one bull from the 1680 line, and it was going to be a while before I used it, guess that gives me plenty of time to see if that one is a carrier or not. Didn't have any plans to line breed on 1680, it was going to be used for another line breeding though.

I looked at 1680 and he is just a little over 3% inbreeding factor, from what I gather they like to keep the cattle under 6%, so he is well inline on that. If he is the problem it's just a twist of fate that the genes lined up wrong in his breeding. It's very common in dogs and other animals to have inbreeding factors in the 25% range, so it's not like it's a severely inbred situation in this case.

Line breeding whether 3% or 100% is still inbreeding.

Sometimes you have to watch out for that over your way huh.

[Brandonm22]

Lethal recessive mutations do NOT occur more frequently in linebreeding; linebreeding just exposes the lethal recessives.