capt wrote:When I made my statement about the angus breeders I did not say all of them listed, I intended to say that not all of those in the original list posted that I would agree with calling them breeders. To me a breeder has to consider the entire animal and how its fits a program defined by that breeder. Since in my mind there is no perfect animal, you assess the positive and negative traits for that animal and mate them to an animal that you feel has the best chance at fixing or complementing those traits. The resulting crop of calves then needs to be sorted and evaluated as to how they meet the program criteria. For example, structurally sound cattle that are profitable in a western range environment with minimal annual precipitation might be the program they need to fit. To me the difference between a breeder and a mulitplier is the breeder raises cattle considering all environment as well as genetic factors to make a complete animal and having the discipline to cull those that do not fit or are not good enough and a multiplier copies what is being done on a large or small scale. Being a muliplier is not to be considered a demeaning term, it just means to me that they are copying what others have done without the discipline of a program or the discipline to cull those animals that do not fit the goal of the program. I am not sure the words I have chosen will convey my meaning, but hopefully so. lcc, I am not sure what your last sentence refers to. what is a predisder?
capt wrote: What constitutes the difference between a breeder and a multiplier in everyone elses mind?
Ned Jr. wrote:capt wrote: What constitutes the difference between a breeder and a multiplier in everyone elses mind?
I was very glad to see Pedretti's and Jamison's had been put on the real breeders list by others, I agree 100%.
Herefords.US wrote:Ned Jr. wrote:capt wrote: What constitutes the difference between a breeder and a multiplier in everyone elses mind?
Regarding Pedretti and Jamison, a question for Ned and any others who have actually seen their herds and are familiar with their breeding philosophies, what makes these people "breeders" rather than "multipliers" who have jumped on the Cooper/Holden Line 1 bandwagon? What differences, if any, do they have in their breeding philosophies than that of Cooper and/or Holden? Does Cooper and Holden have any differences - from each other or from the original Miles City Line 1 philosophy?
Herefords.US wrote:I knew you'd provide a good informative answer to that question, Ned! And thanks to capt for his input as well.
For the record, I asked the question with the goal of stimulating discussion and not because I, personally, don't consider any of those I listed as "real" breeders. Some other Line 1 breeders that I would put in the "real breeder" category would be Debters, Bakers, and Harrells. And I'm sure I've overlooked others in that short list.
I've been to the sales and seen the herds of all three above mentioned breeders. They all have their own distinctive type and different things they specialise in. All three are definitely "real breeders" in my eye too.
Regarding Pedretti, I think Pedretti's 250 bull (GB L1 Domino 250), even though he was born back in 1992, is a bull that could still really improve a LOT of today's Hereford cattle.
I agree, I think the 250 bull left some awfully good daughters behind. Pedretti's have a couple bulls they're using now that I sure like. Here's their links.
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... D&9=5C5D5E
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 0&9=5C5C59
I will admit to being disappointed in the most recent Jamison advertisement for their sale - because every reference sire pictured was either a Cooper or Holden bred bull and none were home raised. To me, one important criteria of a "breeder" is someone that's willing to "eat some of their own cooking" and use home raised bulls in their own herd. But I know that Jamison has done so in the past.
Here's one of the bulls they're using now from their own breeding I really like.
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... F&9=5C5B50
Edited to add: By the way, I've got some "crazy" friends down here that think George Strait isn't a "REAL" country music singer! But they are all stuck on that "Texas" music!
I listen to that Texan music a lot myself. Good stuff. But George Strait is still a great country music singer.