Angus color percentage

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by WFfarm » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:44 am

Can you have a FULLBLOOD Simmental, Limousin, or Gelbvieh that is black?



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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by 76 Bar » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:16 am

Can you have a FULLBLOOD Simmental, Limousin, or Gelbvieh that is black?
Simple answer answer no.

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:28 pm

Katpau - thank you for taking the time to type that. I was not willing (bad me) You did a great job explaining it.
Think of CAB as a PROGRAM, not a breed. (and yes, full white bellies qualify - if they are beef breed standards - not dairy)
Simmental became black the very first year they were introduced into USA, because we only had semen and if you bred a PB or commercial Angus or BWF - you most likely got a black Simmental 1/2 blood. We had 50% black Simmentals in 1972.

Fullblood Simmentals have to go back 5 generations of fullblood pedigree, so no, there are no black Fullbloods. I personally do not like the looks of a fullblood. Here in USA, we "molded" the breed to fit specific climates/areas. It is a very diverse breed. Personally, I don't care if they are red, black, red & white, black & white or purple polka dotted - just so they are GOOD. I do love them with chrome, but that is what I always used to have, so I'm liking the chrome coming back.
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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by MNBelties » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:23 pm

I know for a fact that a non-black animal can be qualified for CAB is when the slaughterhouses didn't kill enough black cattle so they'll take any colors in. And I guess dairy & brahman influenced cattle are allowed to be qualified for CAB? I meant majority of Holstein steers are qualified for CAB..

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by mwj » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:28 pm

MNBelties wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:23 pm
I know for a fact that a non-black animal can be qualified for CAB is when the slaughterhouses didn't kill enough black cattle so they'll take any colors in. And I guess dairy & brahman influenced cattle are allowed to be qualified for CAB? I meant majority of Holstein steers are qualified for CAB..
[/quot


Please show us your ''facts'' and not your opinions. :bs:
never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!!!!!!!

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by Katpau » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:38 pm

MNBelties wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:23 pm
I know for a fact that a non-black animal can be qualified for CAB is when the slaughterhouses didn't kill enough black cattle so they'll take any colors in. And I guess dairy & brahman influenced cattle are allowed to be qualified for CAB? I meant majority of Holstein steers are qualified for CAB..
This is completely untrue and if it is happening, those slaughterhouses are committing fraud and should be reported and penalized.
I will post the rules for CAB again. Please read them and note that cattle that exhibit dairy influence, are specifically excluded. That would include anything that resembles Holstein. Cattle that exhibit traits of the Brahman would also likely be excluded from consideration with the neck hump rule. In most cases, cattle that are heavy in Bos Indicus breeding would not meet the marbling requirement anyway.

CAB was first sold in October of 1978. At that time the black requirement almost guaranteed the cattle were sired by Angus bulls. I'm not sure anyone at the time realized just how successful the CAB brand would be. It changed the direction of Angus breeders to where carcass traits were often stressed over other more maternal traits, and it also changed the direction of numerous other breeds that had the ability to breed up to purebred. There are now black cattle with higher marbling in Simmental and numerous other breeds.

Requirements for the Certified Angus Beef® (CAB) brand
Live cattle must be Angus-influenced: have a predominately (51%) solid black hide, or AngusSource® enrolled to be eligible for CAB evaluation. They must meet all of the 10 following criteria to be certified by USDA graders and labeled with the Certified Angus Beef® brand:

Modest or higher degree of marbling
Medium or fine marbling texture
"A" maturity (both lean & skeletal)
10- to 16-square-inch ribeye area
1,050 pounds or less hot carcass weight
Less than 1-inch fat thickness
Superior muscling (restricts dairy influence)
Practically free of capillary rupture
No dark cutting characteristics
No neck hump exceeding 2 inches

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by MNBelties » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:59 pm

I guess hundreds of butchers at these slaughterhouses lied to us then.

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:47 pm

"hundreds of butchers" - what type of business are you in that you would be exposed to "hundreds of butchers"?
Like Katpau stated. That is fraud and totally illegal. Funny all the years I have been involved in beef, I never heard this claim. And if it was happening, word would be getting out. IMHO
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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by greggy » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:30 pm

We have rigourous systems here, but there are always those who do or seek to skirt the fringes or go outside. It does not seem to be talked about.

Taking non pure angus animals in a scheme that uses that name would seem to me to be stretching things anyway, point being, we are marketed and sold lies everywhere...but there has to be some sort of accepted standard that makes something viable and available.....

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by Katpau » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:25 pm

MNBelties wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:59 pm
I guess hundreds of butchers at these slaughterhouses lied to us then.
To be labeled with the Certified Angus Beef® brand, "they must meet all of the ...criteria to be certified by USDA graders". So you are claiming that you are aware of hundreds of slaughterhouses where USDA graders have falsified the paperwork in order to grade ineligible cattle as CAB. This would seem highly unlikely and if it is happening should certainly be investigated. USDA graders would have no reason to falsify this information unless there is some sort of bribery involved. Those graders are employees of the Federal Government and there should be no financial incentive for them to falsify this information. Could there be a few on the take?...Maybe, but hundreds?

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by Katpau » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:42 pm

Greggy, if you read the rules you will understand that CAB was not designed to indicate the meat was from "pure Angus" cattle. It is primarily a label to indicate the product meets certain quality standards. It is possible for a pure Angus animal to NOT qualify for the label while a black hided animal who is many generations away from pure does qualify. The CAB rules were first written back in the 1970's, at a time when black meant Angus. The original purpose was to encourage the use of quality Black Angus bulls, not to sell only pure Angus beef.

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by greggy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:21 am

Yes, I understand.

It hardly matters to me being a half world away, but was saying people do bend rules, and we often accept such bending of rules.....

When I eat my burger, who really knows ? And large organisations etc can hardly claim to be very clean regarding rules, regs or laws etc

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by Allenw » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:32 pm

Katpau wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:25 pm
MNBelties wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:59 pm
I guess hundreds of butchers at these slaughterhouses lied to us then.
To be labeled with the Certified Angus Beef® brand, "they must meet all of the ...criteria to be certified by USDA graders". So you are claiming that you are aware of hundreds of slaughterhouses where USDA graders have falsified the paperwork in order to grade ineligible cattle as CAB. This would seem highly unlikely and if it is happening should certainly be investigated. USDA graders would have no reason to falsify this information unless there is some sort of bribery involved. Those graders are employees of the Federal Government and there should be no financial incentive for them to falsify this information. Could there be a few on the take?...Maybe, but hundreds?
Who does say a calf qualifies as CAB? It's not a USDA grade.

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by M.Magis » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:34 am

Allenw wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:32 pm

Who does say a calf qualifies as CAB? It's not a USDA grade.
According to the FAQ on CABs website and some other sites I've read, the beef is first graded for it's USDA grade, then afterward it's graded to meet certain branded beef requirements. Not just CAB, there are a ton of branded beef programs. All done by the USDA inspectors.

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Re: Angus color percentage

Post by cbcr » Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:25 am

There have been other breeds that have had carcasses qualify for CAB. A few years ago, there was some CAB meat that was DNA tested and it came back that only 17% of the meat could be traced to Angus genetics.

IF CAB is supposed to be separate, then why when you look a beef recalls some of the recalls include CAB products?

CAB anymore is a marketing scheme. The only thing that it does is tell the consumer that it is a "Choice" grade of beef. Many meat that is sold in markets is select.

There have been some companies that in order to assure that their product is of Angus genetics require documented information that the live animal is really Angus influenced.

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