Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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CreekAngus
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Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by CreekAngus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:37 pm

After going to Deer Valley Farms, I got all goggled eyed looking at their cattle, the money thrown around and all the commotion and promotion. Once the new car smell went away I began to look at my own program and decisions and see if I was going to maintain my current course. What I learned about DVF is that they make the EPD's work for them and they're more about the numbers and carcass than a certain phenotype.

For you seed stock folks....What is your agenda?

Mine is to raise 6 to 7 frame Angus, deep in the rib, square hipped and clean fronted cattle, with an eye on performance and no regard for carcass. I'm looking for 600 to 800lb weaning weights (based on sex) on a 210 day average (calves coming off at 210) and they got to look the part. In my neck of the woods, commercial folks don't take their cattle all the way to the rail, most wean'em at the sale barn or in the trailer. EPD's are a guide in my program, a tool to use, but rarely will it disqualify an animal for me.


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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:54 pm

How about your marketing plan?

Sounds like you're planing to grow out some pretty big cattle, are you selling through a sale barn or trying to go direct to the feedlot?

Why no regard for carcass?
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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:32 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:37 pm
After going to Deer Valley Farms, I got all goggled eyed looking at their cattle, the money thrown around and all the commotion and promotion. Once the new car smell went away I began to look at my own program and decisions and see if I was going to maintain my current course. What I learned about DVF is that they make the EPD's work for them and they're more about the numbers and carcass than a certain phenotype.

For you seed stock folks....What is your agenda?

Mine is to raise 6 to 7 frame Angus, deep in the rib, square hipped and clean fronted cattle, with an eye on performance and no regard for carcass. I'm looking for 600 to 800lb weaning weights (based on sex) on a 210 day average (calves coming off at 210) and they got to look the part. In my neck of the woods, commercial folks don't take their cattle all the way to the rail, most wean'em at the sale barn or in the trailer. EPD's are a guide in my program, a tool to use, but rarely will it disqualify an animal for me.
I will make it simple.

We are looking for the deepest bodied, thickest cattle that we can breed that are highly fertile and functional. We aren't interested in catering to the folks that are unable to feed their cattle in the winter. We aren't interested in nose bleed CED and dinks at birth.

There are operations that can deliver the kind of bulls that create these thick females, but they are few and far between. SAV is the top dog in this category. Look at Kelly Schaff's Instagram and you will see statuesque sires and dams that have no compare, regardless of what the naysayers might claim. He raises REAL CATTLE in my book.

While EPD's are very important, it's how you use certain sires at your disposal, you cannot breed one season and say "hey, that bull didn't deliver what I wanted" It's like building up a farm, most people don't accomplish everything in one season. Each bull you draw on delivers something you may want, you get a daughter if lucky, then breed her to another sire to get another trait you want and hope that what you are building on gets even better. It's a LONG, SLOW process that many are unwilling to adhere to.

Money is NOT the ONLY deciding factor in whether or not you have superb cattle, there is so much more in the equation that it would take another thread to cover it all.

I'm already getting 800 pound 205's and my goal is to hit 900-950.

Another thing I'm super focused on is delivering POTENT bulls to my clients. After speaking with two separate Vets recently, fertility is becoming a hot topic issue. She said she is seeing more and more bulls with "bad swimmers". Deliver a bull that can't perform and watch your reputation go down the toilet faster than you can hear "flush". There is a method to delivering such a bull to clients, but I won't give away the method we use on CT. All I can say is that they are potent and get the job done.

As for weaning weights, this bull is one of several that topped 800 pounds on his 205, he is a DNA proven son of SAV President 6847. He is 9 months old, both BR and TT have seen him in person and can attest that he is "thicker than a Snicker". He could service heifers right now with ease, but he won't be used at full potential until 15-16 months. Imagine this guy growing for another 6-7 months on the ration he is on, which includes steamed and flaked corn. He is going to be massive.

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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by CreekAngus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:42 pm

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:54 pm
How about your marketing plan?

Sounds like you're planing to grow out some pretty big cattle, are you selling through a sale barn or trying to go direct to the feedlot?

Why no regard for carcass?
Commercial folks that I sell my boys to, have no regard for carcass, they sell their calves at weaning just before winter sets in, through the sale barn. My customers want phenotype and growth. Marketing: because I'm small time, doesn't need to be all that much, just talk to people who are in the industry around here and let them know what I got.
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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:46 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:42 pm
TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:54 pm
How about your marketing plan?

Sounds like you're planing to grow out some pretty big cattle, are you selling through a sale barn or trying to go direct to the feedlot?

Why no regard for carcass?
Commercial folks that I sell my boys to, have no regard for carcass, they sell their calves at weaning just before winter sets in, through the sale barn. My customers want phenotype and growth. Marketing: because I'm small time, doesn't need to be all that much, just talk to people who are in the industry around here and let them know what I got.
Thanks. I think I follow where you're going. Good luck with your endeavors.
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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by CreekAngus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:03 pm

Brookhill: This is from my perspective. Yes, you can use a bull and the mating can be a huge miss, the genetics and dna just don't mesh and you cull and move on. In my operation, creating a consistent product does not include looking at a dam and figuring out her faults and hoping to breed corrections into the next generation. I hear that all the time, but I've never seen it actually work. I have seen culling work. I look at a sire from his dam, do I want to imprint her genetics on my herd? I think with most of SAV's lineup I would say yes.
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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by Bright Raven » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:25 pm

This is certainly not my entire agenda but I have come to have a great respect for the following:

A. Make sure you are producing a product that your respective market wants.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by CreekAngus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:37 pm

Brookhill: Who have you heard out there has bad swimmers? I found out recently my heifer bull of choice, Chisum 255 was dropped from Select Sires because of bad production and tomorrow we preg check and if any are open after being ai'ed to him, I'm having a straw micro-scoped. I'm a year early but Werner Flat Top is going into the program.
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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by Son of Butch » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:49 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:37 pm
I found out recently my heifer bull of choice, Chisum 255 was dropped from Select Sires because
of bad production and tomorrow we preg check and if any are open after being ai'ed to him,
I'm having a straw micro-scoped.
Hope you'll update with your results and any other information you might get.
How did you find out... from a SS representative?

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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by jscunn » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:59 pm

1. Fertility
2. Disposition
3. Performance (birth to harvest)

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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:11 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:03 pm
Brookhill: This is from my perspective. Yes, you can use a bull and the mating can be a huge miss, the genetics and dna just don't mesh and you cull and move on. In my operation, creating a consistent product does not include looking at a dam and figuring out her faults and hoping to breed corrections into the next generation. I hear that all the time, but I've never seen it actually work. I have seen culling work. I look at a sire from his dam, do I want to imprint her genetics on my herd? I think with most of SAV's lineup I would say yes.
Especially 4136
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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:13 pm

CreekAngus wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:37 pm
Brookhill: Who have you heard out there has bad swimmers? I found out recently my heifer bull of choice, Chisum 255 was dropped from Select Sires because of bad production and tomorrow we preg check and if any are open after being ai'ed to him, I'm having a straw micro-scoped. I'm a year early but Werner Flat Top is going into the program.
No big name AI outfits. I was referring to the homegrown stuff. The vet says she sees a lot of bulls in our area that will pass the BSE when it comes to the amount of swimmers, but fail when it comes to the quality of them. That is what I was referring to.
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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:17 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:25 pm
This is certainly not my entire agenda but I have come to have a great respect for the following:

A. Make sure you are producing a product that your respective market wants.
Sometimes you have to create a market out of thin air. Build it and they will come.
"When someone tells you it can't be done, it's more a reflection of their limitations, not yours"

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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by Silver » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:40 pm

You have to be careful that the market you think you are creating hasn't been tried and abandoned for good reason.

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Re: Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:47 pm

Silver wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:40 pm
You have to be careful that the market you think you are creating hasn't been tried and abandoned for good reason.
Understood, but what we have as far as cows has been this size for a very long time since the 80's. We know they function well, it's not just something recent that we started. As TT said in an earlier post, a lot of people who are calling them overweight would see that in person they are not, and that they are deep bodied. Heck BR and TT even saw them running through the field after a bucket of grain, 90+ temps, looking like locomotives, and grazing in VERY hot conditions. They can't be knocked on functionality or fertility, both at which they excel.
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