The AAA Foot EPD

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The AAA Foot EPD

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 am

Based on conversation (6/11/2019) with Kelli Retallick, Genetic Services Director, AAA.

The baseline data for the foot EPD is from data submitted by members on foot and claw evaluations since 2014. So 5 years of data. It has been supplemented with data that the Association staff have collected from large herds that have good genomic data.

An animal has to be at least a yearling before foot scoring. As I stated previously, the numeric scoring data is converted to an EPD metric. The reason there is no scale information from 1 to 4 on a visual scoring basis is because there is no data that had been reported where animals were scored in that range. Her thought is and she said this was not unexpected, most foot problems in the Angus breed fall in the 5 to 9 range - no heel and long claws.

In conclusion, the only option now to improve feet qualities is to breed to a bull with a foot EPD of less than 0.5.
Last edited by Bright Raven on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:20 am

I don't understand why ALL breeders weren't asked for foot scores since 2014??? That would affect the outcome if data came from "elite" group.
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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:23 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:20 am
I don't understand why ALL breeders weren't asked for foot scores since 2014??? That would affect the outcome if data came from "elite" group.
As I understood, ALL BREEDERS WERE ASKED, but it was not required.

This is something she and I talked about. Data takes time to "season". The reliability of the foot EPD will increase as the accuracy improves with time.

Sim Ang King - you ask, I hope I got the answer you wanted.
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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by T & B farms » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:47 am

Thank you for reporting back. That is good to know

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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by dbird33 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:30 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 am
Based on conversation (6/11/2019) with Kelli Retallick, Genetic Services Director, AAA.

The baseline data for the foot EPD is from data submitted by members on foot and claw evaluations since 2014. So 5 years of data. It has been supplemented with data that the Association staff have collected from large herds that have good genomic data.

An animal has to be at least a yearling before foot scoring. As I stated previously, the numeric scoring data is converted to an EPD metric. The reason there is no scale information from 1 to 4 on a visual scoring basis is because there is no data that had been reported where animals were scored in that range. Her thought is and she said this was not unexpected, most foot problems in the Angus breed fall in the 5 to 9 range - no heel and long claws.

In conclusion, the only option now to improve feet qualities is to breed to a bull with a foot EPD of less than 0.5.
So is the decimal point suppose to correlate to the 1-9 scoring criteria? Is a .3 bull for claw or angle epd correlating to a 3 on the score card?

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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:36 pm

dbird33 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:30 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 am
Based on conversation (6/11/2019) with Kelli Retallick, Genetic Services Director, AAA.

The baseline data for the foot EPD is from data submitted by members on foot and claw evaluations since 2014. So 5 years of data. It has been supplemented with data that the Association staff have collected from large herds that have good genomic data.

An animal has to be at least a yearling before foot scoring. As I stated previously, the numeric scoring data is converted to an EPD metric. The reason there is no scale information from 1 to 4 on a visual scoring basis is because there is no data that had been reported where animals were scored in that range. Her thought is and she said this was not unexpected, most foot problems in the Angus breed fall in the 5 to 9 range - no heel and long claws.

In conclusion, the only option now to improve feet qualities is to breed to a bull with a foot EPD of less than 0.5.
So is the decimal point suppose to correlate to the 1-9 scoring criteria? Is a .3 bull for claw or angle epd correlating to a 3 on the score card?
No. Does not correlate like that. It is a different metric. The scale from 1 to 9 is converted to an EPD metric by data modeling.
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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by dbird33 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:48 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:36 pm
dbird33 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:30 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 am
Based on conversation (6/11/2019) with Kelli Retallick, Genetic Services Director, AAA.

The baseline data for the foot EPD is from data submitted by members on foot and claw evaluations since 2014. So 5 years of data. It has been supplemented with data that the Association staff have collected from large herds that have good genomic data.

An animal has to be at least a yearling before foot scoring. As I stated previously, the numeric scoring data is converted to an EPD metric. The reason there is no scale information from 1 to 4 on a visual scoring basis is because there is no data that had been reported where animals were scored in that range. Her thought is and she said this was not unexpected, most foot problems in the Angus breed fall in the 5 to 9 range - no heel and long claws.

In conclusion, the only option now to improve feet qualities is to breed to a bull with a foot EPD of less than 0.5.
So is the decimal point suppose to correlate to the 1-9 scoring criteria? Is a .3 bull for claw or angle epd correlating to a 3 on the score card?
No. Does not correlate like that. It is a different metric. The scale from 1 to 9 is converted to an EPD metric by data modeling.
Okay thanks for clearing that up. I thought that's how it worked, but wanted to clarify.

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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:19 pm

dbird33 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:48 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:36 pm
dbird33 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:30 pm

So is the decimal point suppose to correlate to the 1-9 scoring criteria? Is a .3 bull for claw or angle epd correlating to a 3 on the score card?
No. Does not correlate like that. It is a different metric. The scale from 1 to 9 is converted to an EPD metric by data modeling.
Okay thanks for clearing that up. I thought that's how it worked, but wanted to clarify.
You are welcome. A foot angle and claw set EPD of 0.5 is the breed average and thus, considered "desirable". Since there was not sufficient scoring of feet in the range of 1 to 4, to improve feet the only option is to use a bull or bulls with a foot EPD below 0.5.
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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by 76 Bar » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:42 pm

http://www.angus.org/Media/News/FullArt ... Foot-Angle
~ 20,000 records submitted. That number surely is a drop in the bucket.

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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:12 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:42 pm
http://www.angus.org/Media/News/FullArt ... Foot-Angle
~ 20,000 records submitted. That number surely is a drop in the bucket.
Spot on. The AAA is well aware.
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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by 76 Bar » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:07 pm

Spot on. The AAA is well aware.
If thats indeed the case it would be prudent if they ceased crowing about being the industry's largest beef cattle performance data base while embracing cherry picking.

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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:22 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:07 pm
Spot on. The AAA is well aware.
If thats indeed the case it would be prudent if they ceased crowing about being the industry's largest beef cattle performance data base while embracing cherry picking.
Now, that, I disagree with. They ask the membership for data. They cannot demand it. The membership responded with a limited amount of data. They had to start somewhere. Patience! If you have ever used a large database where thousands of data points are required to establish a valid trend, you will understand.

They still have by far, the largest database in the beef industry. That would still be true if they dumped the foot data.
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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by wbvs58 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:17 pm

Ron, do you know who assesses the Feet? Is it an accredited assessor or the members themselves making the judgement? Over here it is only accredited assessors who can score the feet.

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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:20 pm

The members Ken. That’s the flaw.
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Re: The AAA Foot EPD

Post by Ebenezer » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:35 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:07 pm
Spot on. The AAA is well aware.
If thats indeed the case it would be prudent if they ceased crowing about being the industry's largest beef cattle performance data base while embracing cherry picking.
It makes the $M to be less accurate from the start to make the foot score or assumption of foot score a variable in the index. Sure not to enthuse as many on $M when they realize that.

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