Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
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Brookhill Angus
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Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:51 pm

I was told to be wary of OCC descendants because they have poor docility.

Creek Angus said

"Kind of funny you posted “If you knew anything about OCC Paxton, you would want him in the bloodline”.....yet half this thread was devoted to docility. Paxton quite possibly is the worst in the breed for docility"

Well, I wanted to show you folks how Unmistakable, yes, the notorious, "weak", "poor framed", "unbalanced" Unmistakable of Brookhill comes out in the docility department.

I think he gets an A+.

Heck, I might use him to get around the ranch instead of riding on an ATV or horse. LOL!

What's next for Unmistakable, a semen test OUTSIDE of the chute in the middle of the field with a probe in the rear? Who knows? Anything is possible with this rock star of a bull.

Watch and enjoy.

http://bit.ly/2WaM9cd

Oh, by the way, he was NEVER halter broken, neither are a few others that I can do the exact same thing to, all day long.


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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by wbvs58 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:44 am

Well, I don't really think that is the meaning of docility BH with regards to EPD's. I think the docility EPD is more the natural fright/flite response of unhandled calves when they are put through the chute. Most calves/cattle will settle down and become tame with regular feeding and handling/fondling. You want to be carefull, Bright Raven copped a bit of flak when he mentioned he was giving his cows twinkle a bit of a touch up. Mind you it was all in the name of science, a carefully constructed scientific trial to see if it improved conception rates or something, wasn't it Ron?. Fondling Unmistakables cods like that, is that part of a scientific trial?

Ken

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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:34 am

wbvs58 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:44 am
Well, I don't really think that is the meaning of docility BH with regards to EPD's. I think the docility EPD is more the natural fright/flite response of unhandled calves when they are put through the chute. Most calves/cattle will settle down and become tame with regular feeding and handling/fondling. You want to be carefull, Bright Raven copped a bit of flak when he mentioned he was giving his cows twinkle a bit of a touch up. Mind you it was all in the name of science, a carefully constructed scientific trial to see if it improved conception rates or something, wasn't it Ron?. Fondling Unmistakables cods like that, is that part of a scientific trial?

Ken

No, I was checking scrotal circumference. LOL!

It felt substantial to say the least.

Unmistakable seemed ok with things, if he had said “stop” I would have honored his wishes.

He’s not bashful.
"When someone tells you it can't be done, it's more a reflection of their limitations, not yours"

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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by Caustic Burno » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:01 am

My crystal ball thinks this thread has a short life expectancy.
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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:15 am

He certainly is calm.
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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by True Grit Farms » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:30 am

Brookhill, do you only pick and choose which EPD'S to believe and breed towards? We use to treat our bulls like that, till a older farmer ended up dieing when his pet bull stomped him for no apparent reason. He'd bring it treats daily, brush and rub him, they were best buddies. The Sheriff had to shoot the bull to get the old farmer old out of the pasture. At his funeral the preacher said at least he died doing what he enjoyed, cattle were his life for 65 years. DON'T EVER TRUST A BULL.
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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by JMJ Farms » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:16 am

I wouldn’t rub on my bulls like that even if they’d let me. Inviting trouble IMO.
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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by Caustic Burno » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:21 am

JMJ Farms wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:16 am
I wouldn’t rub on my bulls like that even if they’d let me. Inviting trouble IMO.
Way it’s discussed sounds more like it borders on perversion than animal husbandry. Maybe their taking that last word literally.
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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by TCRanch » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:27 am

Brookhill, I love a docile bull (and cows, and calves) and I will hand feed & pet/scratch mine. In the right places. I applaud your effort to dispel the myth that all bulls are dangerous, evil, killing machines but I believe you're promoting negligent animal husbandry - primarily to someone that may be relatively new to cattle. Yes, know your cattle! But never totally trust them and be aware that unintended accidents can occur. I ended up with a broken nose, deviated septum, collapsed nasal tube & two dandy black eyes because while I was scratching one of my cows, she swung her big head around to nail a horse fly; my face just happened to be in the way. Just sayin' . . .

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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by Ebenezer » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:40 am

If there was not a problem with docility then AAA would not have publicly created the EPD. It is a red flag to breeders and especially to breeders of other breeds that says "The Angus breed has been plagued with animals with poor dispositions and we're going to do something about it". Same with CED, HP, CEM - there have been and are problems in the breed.

So on DOC - do you believe EPDs or not? I do to a point of guard rails: use them to find a upper or lower limit I am comfortable with but not bet the farm on the exact #s. If you have any experiences with livestock there is a known experience that a calm animal can produce or sire nuts and a nut can produce or sire a calm animal. I will not tell the dirt from history past here but we have experienced it enough to make watching the DOC EPD a starting point in life's decisions. We even bought a bull one time that had been given something that calmed him and it wore off when he got here. That was a run for my life that I will not ever forget.

And there was another thread that was back on the bad producers abusing the calm cattle. That is a local law enforcement issue if you know of abuse (in KY) then turn them in. But until AAA comes up with an EPD for members that is called MEM DOC EPD you'll just have to decide if a calm calf with a bad DOC EPD is real, drugged or a sire of future volcanoes. Playing around with cattle (Angus or whatever) with short fuses is a dumb idea.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by 5S Cattle » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:42 am

:lol2: You grabbed his nuts! You really leaned down and fondled a bulls nuts! Oh man this is great that you volunteer this kind of info about yourself. :shock:

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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by sim.-ang.king » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:09 am

Either end of the spectrum isn't safe. Pets may one day decide to turn you into their new play toy, or injury you just out of dumb luck. Wild eyed, high headed, snot heads just need to have their head cut off, plain as that.
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Did anyone apologize for making me one?

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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by Red Bull Breeder » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:20 am

At least you know what your dealing with when they are throwing dirt and sling snot. The doc numbers are some what screwed up. I have some low doc epd cows that are calm as any, and never had a idiot calf. Doesn't matter how many calm calves they have because of a certain sire they will get a low epd.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by Brookhill Angus » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:37 am

JMJ Farms wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:16 am
I wouldn’t rub on my bulls like that even if they’d let me. Inviting trouble IMO.
LMAO!
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Re: Let's have a conversation about DOCILITY

Post by Nesikep » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:44 am

Red Bull Breeder wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:20 am
At least you know what your dealing with when they are throwing dirt and sling snot. The doc numbers are some what screwed up. I have some low doc epd cows that are calm as any, and never had a idiot calf. Doesn't matter how many calm calves they have because of a certain sire they will get a low epd.
I think docility comes from the dam far more than the sire.. I notice it with some of my calves, the momma warns the calf when I'm around that first day or two and that sets their behavior... If I'm around enough during those first days the calf figures out momma is full of shyte and I'm no threat, all's well from there on in.
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