Docility.

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.
southernultrablack
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Docility.

Post by southernultrablack » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:40 pm

The Gelbvieh association has recently added a docility EPD. Not sure how accurate it will be, but seems like the got these two pretty close. Cow is top 4% and this bull calf of hers is top 10%. Neither have ever been haltered.

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Re: Docility.

Post by Brute 23 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:54 pm

I kind of hate to see this. A lot of people have already bred the survival nature out of their cattle. This just seems like a scoring system that will push that over the edge. This is one step closer to making cattle pets rather than livestock IMO.
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Re: Docility.

Post by Coosh71 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:47 pm

We don't necessarily pet on our cows/calves, but our Gelbvieh and balancer calves are just dog gentle. Wean with little to no bawling and heifer pastures are almost silent.

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Re: Docility.

Post by T & B farms » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:31 pm

I’ve had the opposite experience with my black gelbvieh bulls. The calves out of them act like deer. Bouncing off of fences and gates. They sure grow well, but some are nuts. I am buying a couple from a different breeder. He swears I won’t have that problem with his bulls. Time will tell.
I put Herefords on that group of cows last year, the calves are eat out of your hand gentle.
I love me some balancer calves, so hope that fixes the problem
That’s a nice looking bull calf by the way.

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Re: Docility.

Post by Red Bull Breeder » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:44 am

Docility is easy to obtain. If it acts like a idiot cut its head off. Don't put up with them and you won't have them.

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Re: Docility.

Post by Ebenezer » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:29 am

Just give me average. I am not in the petting zoo business.

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Re: Docility.

Post by southernultrablack » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:08 pm

Ebenezer wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:29 am
Just give me average. I am not in the petting zoo business.
I would be ok with average. I want to be able to walk through my cattle and work them without having to worry about getting killed. I don’t have to pet them, but I do enjoy being able to.

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Re: Docility.

Post by Red Bull Breeder » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:52 pm

I find these breeds cropping up with a docility number pretty amusing. Limousin caught a crap for docility for years, but now every breed seems to be in need of a doc #.

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Re: Docility.

Post by Aaron » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:27 pm

Brute 23 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:54 pm
I kind of hate to see this. A lot of people have already bred the survival nature out of their cattle. This just seems like a scoring system that will push that over the edge. This is one step closer to making cattle pets rather than livestock IMO.
Majority of livestock would not be able to survive without human care. They are not bison. I knew one guy that lived down a remote stretch of road, bordering swampland and let cattle fend for themselves for decades. Cows lived in 100's of acres of swamp forest in winter, living on whatever they could find. Fella lived in a tin shanty house. The few cows that did survive rarely raised a live calf, maybe one in 10. No outside genetics, so lots of heavy inbreeding. When they were rounded up and sold for slaughter, the mature cows and bulls weighed in around the 900 lb mark. They had all kind of survival instinct, buy they were worth about .25 on dollar because they were stunted and miserable. Feedlot buyers don't want high-strung cattle.

That being said, I much prefer to view cattle standing straight up rather than in a stretcher and neck brace.
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Re: Docility.

Post by holm25 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:00 pm

I like walking around a group of cows that don’t want to kill me but still move if I need them to... Some of ours are too tame and are like a brick wall when working them...

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Re: Docility.

Post by Brute 23 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:51 pm

Aaron wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:27 pm
Brute 23 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:54 pm
I kind of hate to see this. A lot of people have already bred the survival nature out of their cattle. This just seems like a scoring system that will push that over the edge. This is one step closer to making cattle pets rather than livestock IMO.
Majority of livestock would not be able to survive without human care. They are not bison. I knew one guy that lived down a remote stretch of road, bordering swampland and let cattle fend for themselves for decades. Cows lived in 100's of acres of swamp forest in winter, living on whatever they could find. Fella lived in a tin shanty house. The few cows that did survive rarely raised a live calf, maybe one in 10. No outside genetics, so lots of heavy inbreeding. When they were rounded up and sold for slaughter, the mature cows and bulls weighed in around the 900 lb mark. They had all kind of survival instinct, buy they were worth about .25 on dollar because they were stunted and miserable. Feedlot buyers don't want high-strung cattle.

That being said, I much prefer to view cattle standing straight up rather than in a stretcher and neck brace.
There is a difference between wild, borderline ferral cattle, vs domesticated livestock, vs pets.

I like some thing born with a little spunk and good instincts but is trainable.

Again, what feedlot buyers want vs what is profitable for producers is not always the same thing.
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Re: Docility.

Post by sim.-ang.king » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:04 am

Red Bull Breeder wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:52 pm
I find these breeds cropping up with a docility number pretty amusing. Limousin caught a crap for docility for years, but now every breed seems to be in need of a doc #.
When is Limmy going to add an EPD for how high of fence they can jump?

I had one that had an Jump EPD of +12 with an accuracy of 98%.


:lol: :hide:
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Re: Docility.

Post by Redgully » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:49 am

sim.-ang.king wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:04 am
Red Bull Breeder wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:52 pm
I find these breeds cropping up with a docility number pretty amusing. Limousin caught a crap for docility for years, but now every breed seems to be in need of a doc #.
When is Limmy going to add an EPD for how high of fence they can jump?

I had one that had an Jump EPD of +12 with an accuracy of 98%.


:lol: :hide:
Or even a stupidity epd. After having murray grey, which were so smart they even had clairvoyant tendency, i expected my red polls to work out how to get around. So if i open a gate and they are behind it i expected they would figure out how to walk around it and not stand there calling out and acting like flamin drongos!

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Re: Docility.

Post by TCRanch » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:19 am

I now pay very little attention to the DOC on the EPD's (Angus bulls). Bought a bull at a big auction probably 5 years ago that had stellar EPD's, including DOC. He loaded hot on the trailer and I was always on guard around him. Immediately sold him after he went after my husband; private treaty sale to a large operation that does everything on horseback & dogs, they still have him. That said, I kept 3 of his heifers that are incredibly docile (just had their 3rd calves) and I credit their mamas and the environment in which they were raised. Yes, I pet my cows & they are all hand feeders but won't hesitate to pop 'em in the nose if they don't respect my personal space.

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Re: Docility.

Post by Red Bull Breeder » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:29 am

I find these breeds cropping up with a docility number pretty amusing. Limousin caught a crap for docility for years, but now every breed seems to be in need of a doc #.
[/quote]

When is Limmy going to add an EPD for how high of fence they can jump?

I had one that had an Jump EPD of +12 with an accuracy of 98%.


I don't know Queenie, but when they do it will be about as worthless as the doc #.

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