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Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:11 am
by Jake
True Grit Farms wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:11 am
]

Buyers will overlook flaws just to get a blazed face bull. Maybe our choice of cattle in the southeast reflect why we have the reputation that we have.
This entire thread is a great show of why cattle from that region have the reputation they do.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:36 am
by Bright Raven
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:11 am
True Grit Farms wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:11 am
]

Buyers will overlook flaws just to get a blazed face bull. Maybe our choice of cattle in the southeast reflect why we have the reputation that we have.
This entire thread is a great show of why cattle from that region have the reputation they do.
Unfortunately, true, but keep in mind, most producers in Kentucky don't do this for a living. The average herd size is 20 brood cows. The demographics, job market, poverty level, etc is such that spending money on bulls is not justified.

The UK Extension program makes an effort in conjunction with the County Cattle Boards to promote better animal husbandry. The CAIP program is part of that effort and provides cost share money for genetic improvement, water systems, handling facilities, etc.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am
by Jake
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:36 am


Unfortunately, true, but keep in mind, most producers in Kentucky don't do this for a living. The average herd size is 20 brood cows. The demographics, job market, poverty level, etc is such that spending money on bulls is not justified.

The UK Extension program makes an effort in conjunction with the County Cattle Boards to promote better animal husbandry. The CAIP program is part of that effort and provides cost share money for genetic improvement, water systems, handling facilities, etc.
I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:49 am
by Bright Raven
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:36 am


Unfortunately, true, but keep in mind, most producers in Kentucky don't do this for a living. The average herd size is 20 brood cows. The demographics, job market, poverty level, etc is such that spending money on bulls is not justified.

The UK Extension program makes an effort in conjunction with the County Cattle Boards to promote better animal husbandry. The CAIP program is part of that effort and provides cost share money for genetic improvement, water systems, handling facilities, etc.
I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.
It is not only Kentucky, other states in the SE share in the problem.

I have had the opportunity to get exposure to the cattle practices in Missouri. They do it better there and it is reflected in the prices.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:31 am
by True Grit Farms
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:49 am
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:36 am


Unfortunately, true, but keep in mind, most producers in Kentucky don't do this for a living. The average herd size is 20 brood cows. The demographics, job market, poverty level, etc is such that spending money on bulls is not justified.

The UK Extension program makes an effort in conjunction with the County Cattle Boards to promote better animal husbandry. The CAIP program is part of that effort and provides cost share money for genetic improvement, water systems, handling facilities, etc.
I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.
It is not only Kentucky, other states in the SE share in the problem.

I have had the opportunity to get exposure to the cattle practices in Missouri. They do it better there and it is reflected in the prices.
The logistics of getting our calves to the feedlots plays a roll in our lower prices. I drive 2.5 hours to sell a load of slaughter cows for a $100 more per head than we get locally. But the management practices from the small to fairly large operations can be some of the best to some of the worst. Most of my neighbors won't even vaccinate for blackleg much less anything else, and some run 300 momma cows. Every calf gets trailer weaned and sold right along with calves that have been worked and bunk broke. We deserve our crappy reputation in the southeast, but there's also a lot of quality cattle produced here, CHEAP. I recommend that anyone who wants a better animal for their $dollars to come on down and look around. We're just getting started with our bull and cow sales, and as a bonus it's 73 degrees and the sun is shinning.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:09 pm
by mwj
Blaze face and white face are not the same thing.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:25 pm
by Brookhill Angus
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:11 am
True Grit Farms wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:11 am
]

Buyers will overlook flaws just to get a blazed face bull. Maybe our choice of cattle in the southeast reflect why we have the reputation that we have.
This entire thread is a great show of why cattle from that region have the reputation they do.
Absolutely! and it really is bad for the people that raise high-quality cattle in the state

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:44 pm
by Brookhill Angus
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:36 am


Unfortunately, true, but keep in mind, most producers in Kentucky don't do this for a living. The average herd size is 20 brood cows. The demographics, job market, poverty level, etc is such that spending money on bulls is not justified.

The UK Extension program makes an effort in conjunction with the County Cattle Boards to promote better animal husbandry. The CAIP program is part of that effort and provides cost share money for genetic improvement, water systems, handling facilities, etc.
I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.
I don't take offense at all, I'm actually glad you are saying what you have said. I say it all the time around here and I feel like people in the cattle business can't stand me. Who cares! I will never be an advocate of trying to market sick, low-quality cattle. I'm tired of hearing the excuses by producers that find any reason in the book to raise dregs, the sorriest looking cattle you can imagine, and then claim "well it's not my main profession" or "it's only a small herd so that's why I don't give a sh...t" I chalk it up to either laziness, or ignorance, maybe a combination of both. Kentucky has massive opportunities in the cattle business, but we would rather focus on coal miners, and how we aren't like the "big boys" out west. By the way, I have nothing against miners, but there are a lot more farmers than miners in Kentucky.

There is absolutely no reason why a small herd cannot be a HIGH-QUALITY small herd. When dairy was strong in Kentucky those farmers would not have even dreamed of treating their dairy cattle as poorly as beef cattle are treated here. There was great pride in what they owned, they used AI, and they kept those cattle in great condition. There are abandoned silos everywhere you look around here, barns filled with junk instead of working cattle equipment, etc. People have just given up! Yes, there are a few dedicated souls who put out a great product, but you have to sort through a lot to find them.

I guess it's way too much work to rotationally graze, watch your cattle a couple times a day, buy a good bull, retain the daughters and then repeat the process. That's FAR TOO COMPLICATED and labor intensive. Complaining about how bad things are is an easier route, but not necessarily a successful one.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:31 pm
by T & B farms
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:44 pm
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:36 am


Unfortunately, true, but keep in mind, most producers in Kentucky don't do this for a living. The average herd size is 20 brood cows. The demographics, job market, poverty level, etc is such that spending money on bulls is not justified.

The UK Extension program makes an effort in conjunction with the County Cattle Boards to promote better animal husbandry. The CAIP program is part of that effort and provides cost share money for genetic improvement, water systems, handling facilities, etc.
I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.
I don't take offense at all, I'm actually glad you are saying what you have said. I say it all the time around here and I feel like people in the cattle business can't stand me. Who cares! I will never be an advocate of trying to market sick, low-quality cattle. I'm tired of hearing the excuses by producers that find any reason in the book to raise dregs, the sorriest looking cattle you can imagine, and then claim "well it's not my main profession" or "it's only a small herd so that's why I don't give a sh...t" I chalk it up to either laziness, or ignorance, maybe a combination of both. Kentucky has massive opportunities in the cattle business, but we would rather focus on coal miners, and how we aren't like the "big boys" out west. By the way, I have nothing against miners, but there are a lot more farmers than miners in Kentucky.

There is absolutely no reason why a small herd cannot be a HIGH-QUALITY small herd. When dairy was strong in Kentucky those farmers would not have even dreamed of treating their dairy cattle as poorly as beef cattle are treated here. There was great pride in what they owned, they used AI, and they kept those cattle in great condition. There are abandoned silos everywhere you look around here, barns filled with junk instead of working cattle equipment, etc. People have just given up! Yes, there are a few dedicated souls who put out a great product, but you have to sort through a lot to find them.

I guess it's way too much work to rotationally graze, watch your cattle a couple times a day, buy a good bull, retain the daughters and then repeat the process. That's FAR TOO COMPLICATED and labor intensive. Complaining about how bad things are is an easier route, but not necessarily a successful one.
Well said. Most farmers around here like to set in the coffee shop and Bi$@h and moan about being broke. I’ve worked 100+ hours a week ever since I got out of high school. Atleast I’ve earned the right to complain about being poor. All these old timers going under has worked in my favor. They are too stubborn to pick up on modern ways. SoI’m right there to take over their ground after the bank “retirement auction”

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:55 pm
by Brookhill Angus
T & B farms wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:31 pm
Brookhill Angus wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:44 pm
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am

Well said. Most farmers around here like to set in the coffee shop and Bi$@h and moan about being broke. I’ve worked 100+ hours a week ever since I got out of high school. Atleast I’ve earned the right to complain about being poor. All these old timers going under has worked in my favor. They are too stubborn to pick up on modern ways. SoI’m right there to take over their ground after the bank “retirement auction”
There have been plenty of nights that a cow/heifer needed to be AI'd and it was 10:00 at night, raining, mud, etc. The job had to be done. No excuses. We are out there doing it, no matter what it takes.

Drive around at 10:00 at night in our county it's like a ghost town.

It's about how badly you want it, comfort is not your friend in the cattle business. You can either hang around the stockyards, stuffing your face, and shooting the bull, or you can be hustling. I don't see the people that make real money in cattle around here taking it easy, they are hungry, and not in the literal sense of the word.

I totally agree, it's going to be a free for all once these farms start slipping out of the old timers hands. The children, for the most part, want NOTHING to do with cattle or farming crops. They are all commuting to the cities, then eventually moving there in time. Raising cattle or farming is seen as low class, and a dead end profession these days by many, which I guess it is, when you are not concerned about quality. What's going to happen when the land is sold, and one is living in a 1 bedroom apartment in the city trying to duke it out with everyone else trying to survive? With limited skill sets and education on top of that. It's a recipe for disaster.

Land will take care of you, and has done so for the longest time. It's what you do with that land that is critical. The inefficient steward of the land will be replaced by the efficient steward over time. Land is too scarce to waste at this point. Take a look at the "hay panic of 2019" I bet if people had been more diligent in baling as much hay as they could, they would really enjoy selling hay at $80-100 bale to the people that are frantic to feed their animals and will pay whatever it takes. The same people that were shooting the bull and stuffing their faces.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:58 pm
by mwj
Why in the world would you be doing AI in the mud at 10PM? That would be a turn off to a lot of potential customers. As far as those city people go, they are the ones that eat the product we produce.

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:25 pm
by Brookhill Angus
mwj wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:58 pm
Why in the world would you be doing AI in the mud at 10PM? That would be a turn off to a lot of potential customers. As far as those city people go, they are the ones that eat the product we produce.
Ok

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:24 pm
by ALACOWMAN
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:36 am


Unfortunately, true, but keep in mind, most producers in Kentucky don't do this for a living. The average herd size is 20 brood cows. The demographics, job market, poverty level, etc is such that spending money on bulls is not justified.

The UK Extension program makes an effort in conjunction with the County Cattle Boards to promote better animal husbandry. The CAIP program is part of that effort and provides cost share money for genetic improvement, water systems, handling facilities, etc.
I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.
biggest reason....it's hard to soar like a eagle,when surrounded by buzzards..

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:35 pm
by ALACOWMAN
kentuckyguy wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:01 pm
I’m my area of Ky price plays a pretty big part in bull sales. Getting over $1500-1800 will be pretty tough no matter how good the bull is.

Most want to buy a 5-6 month old bull calf for $6-800 and take a chance versus buying a mature semen tested bull for $2000
Last time I paid $800 for a bull was in the 80's.... breeding age Simm..and actually one of the best ones I've had in the past..

Re: What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:44 pm
by ALACOWMAN
True Grit Farms wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:31 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:49 am
Jake wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am


I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.
It is not only Kentucky, other states in the SE share in the problem.

I have had the opportunity to get exposure to the cattle practices in Missouri. They do it better there and it is reflected in the prices.
The logistics of getting our calves to the feedlots plays a roll in our lower prices. I drive 2.5 hours to sell a load of slaughter cows for a $100 more per head than we get locally. But the management practices from the small to fairly large operations can be some of the best to some of the worst. Most of my neighbors won't even vaccinate for blackleg much less anything else, and some run 300 momma cows. Every calf gets trailer weaned and sold right along with calves that have been worked and bunk broke. We deserve our crappy reputation in the southeast, but there's also a lot of quality cattle produced here, CHEAP. I recommend that anyone who wants a better animal for their $dollars to come on down and look around. We're just getting started with our bull and cow sales, and as a bonus it's 73 degrees and the sun is shinning.
You touched on one of the many problems outside of genetics..no back grounding ...the buyers gotta go to ground zero with those trailer weaners ...weight loss and stress,Bulls still intact...making em easy prey for those $700 bull buyers :cowboy: