High -Tech Horse Theft Ring

[TexasBred]

I don't understand the "horse theft" angle here.

When a willing seller and a willing buyer (no matter how stupid) meet up, and come to terms agreeable to both, you have a sale. Horses are no different than vehicles or any other merchandise--they can be (and often are) misrepresented. The trick is to be smart enough to make an informed decision as to buy or not buy. Isn't a lot of this outrage misdirected? I, too, have made rash buying decisions, and I really get angry with myself over it. But, I tend to try to keep it quiet...

Like the man said, there's a fool born every minute.

Excellent post Jim. I think many of us have had the wool pulled over our eyes at least once in our life. Just don't tell anybody. Don't know of a single mistake I ever made that I didn't pay for it in some manner. I think they call that "gaining experience".

[polebender]

There is another victim that posted on Ripoffreport.com. Just type in "Wilson". This woman is evidently making a career out of scamming people. This has gone beyond 1-2 unhappy buyers. Besides, people do trials before purchasing all of the time, and usually it comes out clean. These don't. EVEN with a contract. You would think written contracts cannot go wrong, but sadly they do. Having a written out contract with a plan is not a "rash" decision. It is actually an educated decision, IMHO.

[cowgirlup55]

Subject should be "Horse Fraud". I agree you should ride and check out a horse personally. I too, learned this the hard way. I know exactly who we're talking about here and she's a con artist. You don't think it will happed to you, but she's good at what she does. She's been run out of some states already and hopefully, Texas will be next. It's not just one or two people, it's lots of people all over the United States. For the ones of you who say you would never buy a horse sight unseen, you have not dealt with this person.

[msscamp]

For those of you who question why anyone would buy a horse sight unseen, let's look at something.

What happens is this:

You find a horse that sounds absolutely wonderful, but it is miles and miles away. You try to see it, but the time factor never works out because the seller is very busy with her "showing". The seller agrees to ship it to you for a trial basis with a contract stating you have time to do a trial, vet check, etc. with the condition that the horse can be returned after a two week trial if it does not work out. There is supposedly a contract with every trial period. How can you go wrong with a signed contract, right??
Evidently, when the horse is found to be unsuitable, then people are rejected in their request for a refund. It is very difficult to do the whole lawsuit process, but some people have and have been successful. Some cannot afford the legal fees, so they feel the best they can do is to just get the word out.
I personally know she sold a horse that was unsound and a danger to children, but she felt she did not need to disclose that information.
If you read the comments on Dreamhorse.com Fraud section or ripoffreport.com, you may find out more information.
It is very interesting, but at the same time, very depressing.

This explanation does not fly with me. Sorry to be repetitious but, why on earth would anyone buy a horse they have not seen, or ridden - that just baffles me.

[chippie]

It really is not that uncommon for someone to buy a horse over the Internet without seeing it in person nor even riding it.

I have. I bought a filly in Kentucky and had her shipped to me in Texas. She was an unstarted 2 year old. I still have her 3 years later.

For me the option of flying to driving to Northern Kentucky was out of the question. I liked her looks and her bloodlines, so I bought her.

When you can't find what you want in your own backyard, you look elsewhere.

ETA: Also, even if you see the horse in person and ride it, does not guarantee that you will not get ripped off. Unscrupulous sellers will dope horses in a way that is undetectable to the eye and will last days. The only way to avoid buying a drugged horse is a pre-purchase exam which includes a drug screening.

[Meador_m]

I can't believe that you would buy a horse without going to see it or riding it. And then to wire the money to an account... Come on people, The internet has made ya'll lazy, this isn't a digital camera your buying off Ebay this is a live animal that could potentially kill you... go check out the horse before you buy. If you can'y afford to go look at the horse then you can't afford a horse.

[polebender]

[/quote]


This explanation does not fly with me. Sorry to be repetitious but, why on earth would anyone buy a horse they have not seen, or ridden - that just baffles me.[/quote]


I think you misunderstood. I am sorry to be repetitious, as well, but these people did not "buy". They put a deposit down for a trial and vet check. An educated buyer will take it to their own vet to have a pre-purchase done. These are with a contract stating deposit will be given back. I have done this numerous times as a buyer AND seller. Successfully, I might add. I will not let someone take a horse I am selling off of my property without a contract and deposit. Sadly, there are too many people who will not come back. Many people have trainers as well who want to evaluate the horse. You may be a person who rides a horse once and decides to buy. That is fine, too. With some horses, I have done that as well. When they get a little pricier, though, it is worth the vet check, IMHO.

The problem with this seller is that she will not give the deposit back when the horse has been found to be "defective", unless you take her to court. But some people just don't want to mess with the judgments on someone who has nothing. You will probably never see the money again.

I have never bought a horse off of the internet sight unseen, but have done trial periods. I have a friend, though, who had a horse shipped from Missouri to Texas about 8 years ago. She still has him and loves him dearly. It depends on the seller and their reputation. This seller she bought from had a good reputation, and still does now. The woman discussed in this particular thread is dangerous and does not have a good reputation.

[Jim62]

There's one in Austin, too. Not selling dangerous horses, just horses that can not be ridden unless they're doped due to lameness issues. She's associated with an equine rescue group, and we suspect that she's selling horses that have been surrendered (or in the process of being surrendered) to the group. What a way to "rescue" a horse.

Don't ask how I learned this.........

[I luv herfrds]

Got a guy who is a "horse trader" south of us. Advertises in the local paper with kid horses. I looked at one. saw that they couldn't catch the horse and was so buddy sour that it was dangerous. I walked away and warned everyone I knew to stay away from him.
He tried to get my kids to walk up and pet a really young foal. I wouldn't let them. the foal was with it's dam and the mare didn't know us. I wasn't going to take the chance.
He kept calling a 4 yo gelding a kids horse.
This guy almost snared a friend of ours into buying one of his horses, they didn't.

Buying horses is a buyer beware deal. Like I said we got burned on 2 horses before. We checked them both over and rode both of them. What we failed to do was a vet check. would have found out that the first horse was foundered and the second horse was just flat out dangerous.

[polebender]

Update:

She has been banned from selling horses in the State of Texas. Justice has been served, but several people are out their deposit money. At least, hopefully, no more children are put in danger during these trial periods! I got this from a public posting:

"It is further ordered, adjudged, and decreed that, for the protection of the public, the defendant Patricia Wilson is hereby permanently enjoined from engaging in the sale, offering for sale, advertising for sale, promoting for sale, or assisting in the sale of horses in the State of Texas from the date of this judgement." Translation: Ms. Patricia Wilson can NEVER sell a horse in the state of Texas ever again. If she does, she will be prosecuted for breaching this judgement, put forth by the Honorable Dan Mills, Judge, 424th Judicial District, Llano County, TX.

God Bless!!!

[mams]

I am a grandmother looking for a very good, SAFE kids horse for my grand babies. Just this morning I was searching for horses in Texas and found an ad posted on equinenow "Gentle Family Ranch Horses Now Availible" equinenow horse-ad-175498.

ad reads: "We have a large variety of great family and ranch geldings availible at this time, Our goal is to list high quality horses and represent them to the buyer honestly. Many buyers are looking for gentle horses with no buck about them. Others prefer a high energy horse and do not mind a cold backed horse. If we represent each horse in a compltely honest way, we have a much better chance of getting the match to stick. Happy Buyer and a Happy Horse!"

Call Ranch Horses For Sale at: 903-742-9942

I am also one of those people that learned a lesson the hard way when I bought a crazy drugged up horse that almost killed me from a horse trader I knew nothing about, I now know this was his "business". Now whenever possible i do a search on the phone numbers and if there are those people that "talk about it" and have filed a report somewhere online I steer clear. People that report this bad behavior are doing an excellent public service by letting unsuspecting folks know these unscrupulous people are out there. I would have been so taken by this ad that i would have setup an appointment to go see what they have. So far by tracing these people I have found 4 scam artists on equine and equinenow that I would have wasted my time and money to drive hundreds of miles to find out they were scammers. Thanks for the good work citizens!!

[Brandonm22]

Dishonesty from a .........HORSE TRADER?????

I am shocked, just terribly SHOCKED!!!!

Folks I am not buying a bull unless I have the time to go see the bull on his home range (and preferably his dam) and I am not putting down any deposit either. If that is not good enough for the bull seller, I will find another bull seller. I buy assuming that the "money back guarantee" is a load of crap. It is the same way with a used car. If the car has some rattle or shimmie I can't diagnose and either fix or price the fix on the test drive I don't buy it. Generally, I pay my mechanic $150 to put it up on the rack and give me his opinion (mine usually waves the fee since we do a lot of biz). Why would you not take even more effort when buying a horse, especially one for your kid???? If I can't ride it, I wouldn't put my kid on it. Heck, I would rather take my time and have to pay MORE than mess up a kid's experience with his/her first horse. IF you don't KNOW anything about horses or don't have the time to drive 200 miles to the horse sale or stable, pay out a few more bucks and let a reputable riding instructor buy the horse for the kid. You are going to need a riding instructor afterall if you know nothing (and check references) about horses. To me, another $3000 (or more) is worth not getting someone in the family hurt and/or having to take away some unridable bronk from some 11 year old girl who loves the horrible thing unconditionally.

[txhrseluvr]

Mams - you are wise. That is in fact the telephone number of a bad theiving trader. I think the biggest thing people miss is that she intentionallly targets people with little to no experience with horses.

And, if you don't know much about horses you can be scammed even if you do ride the horse first. People aren't typically suspicious enough to imagine that a person would drug a horse to sell it as a "safe kids horse". Once you know about horses you understand that this kind of thing happens.

[msscamp]

Dishonesty from a .........HORSE TRADER?????

I am shocked, just terribly SHOCKED!!!!



Folks I am not buying a bull unless I have the time to go see the bull on his home range (and preferably his dam) and I am not putting down any deposit either. If that is not good enough for the bull seller, I will find another bull seller. I buy assuming that the "money back guarantee" is a load of crap. It is the same way with a used car. If the car has some rattle or shimmie I can't diagnose and either fix or price the fix on the test drive I don't buy it. Generally, I pay my mechanic $150 to put it up on the rack and give me his opinion (mine usually waves the fee since we do a lot of biz). Why would you not take even more effort when buying a horse, especially one for your kid???? If I can't ride it, I wouldn't put my kid on it. Heck, I would rather take my time and have to pay MORE than mess up a kid's experience with his/her first horse. IF you don't KNOW anything about horses or don't have the time to drive 200 miles to the horse sale or stable, pay out a few more bucks and let a reputable riding instructor buy the horse for the kid. You are going to need a riding instructor afterall if you know nothing (and check references) about horses. To me, another $3000 (or more) is worth not getting someone in the family hurt and/or having to take away some unridable bronk from some 11 year old girl who loves the horrible thing unconditionally.

Amen!

[polebender]

Dishonesty from a .........HORSE TRADER?????

I am shocked, just terribly SHOCKED!!!!



Folks I am not buying a bull unless I have the time to go see the bull on his home range (and preferably his dam) and I am not putting down any deposit either. If that is not good enough for the bull seller, I will find another bull seller. I buy assuming that the "money back guarantee" is a load of crap. It is the same way with a used car. If the car has some rattle or shimmie I can't diagnose and either fix or price the fix on the test drive I don't buy it. Generally, I pay my mechanic $150 to put it up on the rack and give me his opinion (mine usually waves the fee since we do a lot of biz). Why would you not take even more effort when buying a horse, especially one for your kid???? If I can't ride it, I wouldn't put my kid on it. Heck, I would rather take my time and have to pay MORE than mess up a kid's experience with his/her first horse. IF you don't KNOW anything about horses or don't have the time to drive 200 miles to the horse sale or stable, pay out a few more bucks and let a reputable riding instructor buy the horse for the kid. You are going to need a riding instructor afterall if you know nothing (and check references) about horses. To me, another $3000 (or more) is worth not getting someone in the family hurt and/or having to take away some unridable bronk from some 11 year old girl who loves the horrible thing unconditionally.

Amen!

Good for you! You are entitled to do business how you want to do it. I personally prefer to take a horse away from their home surroundings and to my own vet to see how they do out of their comfort zone. Many horses do great in their own arena and pasture, but go bonkers on the trail, arena or in another stable. I just think you are better off seeing how a horse does in different surroundings for safety reasons, especially when buying for children. Sad, but it is well known sellers will drug horses and it sometimes takes three days for drugs to wear off. It is also a conflict of interest for the seller's vet to represent the buyer as well, so it is smarter to use your own vet. This horse trader will deny she is a horse trader, as well. I have never had a problem with someone doing a trial on a horse I am selling, but unless I know that person, I am getting some kind of deposit!! Buyers can scam too, and sell the horse from under you, and they are out nothing. Some people refuse to do a trial, and that is fine, too. We just disagree on how things should be handled, but that is ok. What is good for one person is not good for another. I have seen many good transactions occur cross country, and even though I am skittish about doing that myself, I have seen it work fantastically for others. To each his own, I guess. Either way, this lady has been arrested, so it will end fine, I hope. Oh, and I do want to add that the MOST dangerous horse that I ever came across personally was one that had been tried out in person, brought home, settled in, was doing fine....then a few days later something snapped. I guess the drugs wore off, but she was a rank, vicious, psychotic mare who eventually broke a young girls jaw with a swift kick. I will never forget that mare. Her name was Samantha and she had been sold to a young (maybe year old girl as a kids horse. I think the girls parents ended up sending her to slaughter. I bet they didnt have her more than a week. That was many years ago, and I was a kid myself, but ever since then I have always thought it was a good idea to do a trial. Seeing them in person is no guarantee.