Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by greybeard » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:10 pm

It all starts with the individual and the idea of "all about me".What I want.What's best for me.I want to do what I want to do and everyone else make it possible."It's everyone's fault but mine."
Do some 'back reading' on CT and you will quickly realize that "Meeeee!" attitude is and always has been very prevalent... even here at CT.
Very very few people will actually fight for their own rights, much less the rights of others and they will use any and every excuse they can come up with.. not to. The Hammonds, Bundys and Finnicums of the world are a very very small minority.
Last edited by greybeard on Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by Redgully » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:04 pm

I think you can go back 3000 years and people were the same, the old saying, people never change only times change.

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:58 pm

Quote: "An interesting little artifact from Prison Policy Initiative, which reports that the state with the lowest incarceration rate in the country is Vermont. This should probably not be surprising. Vermont, per the Death Penalty Initiative, also consistently has either the lowest or second-lowest number of murders in the country. And FBI statistics show that the state routinely ranks as one of the five safest. In 2012, there were eight murders there — just two of which involved firearms.
Why is this interesting? Well, because it does some damage to the idea that there is an ironclad link between the availability of firearms and crime. Not only does Vermont essentially have no gun laws at all, but the state’s residents own more guns per capita than those of any other. (It is estimated that between 70 and 75 percent of Vermonters own firearms)."
Full article:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/v ... c-w-cooke/
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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:38 pm

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:58 pm
Quote: "An interesting little artifact from Prison Policy Initiative, which reports that the state with the lowest incarceration rate in the country is Vermont. This should probably not be surprising. Vermont, per the Death Penalty Initiative, also consistently has either the lowest or second-lowest number of murders in the country. And FBI statistics show that the state routinely ranks as one of the five safest. In 2012, there were eight murders there — just two of which involved firearms.
Why is this interesting? Well, because it does some damage to the idea that there is an ironclad link between the availability of firearms and crime. Not only does Vermont essentially have no gun laws at all, but the state’s residents own more guns per capita than those of any other. (It is estimated that between 70 and 75 percent of Vermonters own firearms)."
Full article:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/v ... c-w-cooke/
Excellent post.
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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by kenny thomas » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:18 pm

Seems the rally didn't matter to the liberal state Senate. One of them even called people at the rally idiots. The gun control measures are going through the state Senate still with several more proposed.
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by Redgully » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:40 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:58 pm
Quote: "An interesting little artifact from Prison Policy Initiative, which reports that the state with the lowest incarceration rate in the country is Vermont. This should probably not be surprising. Vermont, per the Death Penalty Initiative, also consistently has either the lowest or second-lowest number of murders in the country. And FBI statistics show that the state routinely ranks as one of the five safest. In 2012, there were eight murders there — just two of which involved firearms.
Why is this interesting? Well, because it does some damage to the idea that there is an ironclad link between the availability of firearms and crime. Not only does Vermont essentially have no gun laws at all, but the state’s residents own more guns per capita than those of any other. (It is estimated that between 70 and 75 percent of Vermonters own firearms)."
Full article:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/v ... c-w-cooke/
Second half of the article is a bit less clear on those claims. Vermont still has the same average gun deaths per 100,000 people as the other states combined. Just mostly suicides.

A very good article to read (unbiased if you can) is this one. I would love your opinions on it, especially Jeannes, and I'm serious, i really like hearing the argument against as it really gets me thinking. I have really enjoyed this debate, it has really opened my eyes to the way of life you guys live and how we differ. It hasn't been rude or abusive either and i really respect you all for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... e-evidence

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by jltrent » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:13 am

kenny thomas wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:18 pm
Seems the rally didn't matter to the liberal state Senate. One of them even called people at the rally idiots. The gun control measures are going through the state Senate still with several more proposed.
They made the promises and in the end they will take any assault style weapons and maybe more as we will match Jersey, NY, Illinois, California or worse when the libs are done...I really don't know what I will do as a few years ago I had that boating accident and lost so many...I will show them were it went down, but my memory is not very good.

Went by the local gun shop yesterday and they were covered up. I had to wait around a while, but still have my rights so I exercised them.....

I bought a couple of these....Probably turn them into 300 Blackout pistols.....an maybe they get grandfathered in....

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by kenny thomas » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:32 am

I typed a 15 minute response and it all went away when I hit submit.
Redgully I also have enjoyed the discussion. Thank you for your thoughts.
One difference I see here is there will not be a peaceful turn in of guns, buyback or just giving them to the government. Just not going to happen. I can't imaging turning in a gun that my grandfather had owned and there was no records of.
It's so different it's hard to imagine.
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:45 am

I posted that because my daughter lives in Vermont. Some people actually have signs in their yards saying things like "we own guns, trespassers will be shot".
In USA we have to go through Background Criminal Investigation Check before we can purchase a gun. I don't necessarily agree with people owning assault type weapons, but I do NOT believe they should be banned. Only for the reason that if they ban one type, that opens the door for them to banned ALL.
I do not put much into studies - this was in the report I posted:
"While two studies found either no reduction in firearm deaths before and after the NFA, or a reduction only in firearm-related suicides, but not overall suicides, the methods for both of these studies were subsequently criticised by other researchers."
The problem is "we the people" will never let our government have that much control over us. How do "we the people" fight back if the government decided to be the dictator they want to be?
They will play he!! taking my guns and many others I know feel the same way.
I also do NOT think voluntary gun turn in will be successful here in USA.
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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by hurleyjd » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:14 am

kenny thomas wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:32 am
I typed a 15 minute response and it all went away when I hit submit.
Redgully I also have enjoyed the discussion. Thank you for your thoughts.
One difference I see here is there will not be a peaceful turn in of guns, buyback or just giving them to the government. Just not going to happen. I can't imaging turning in a gun that my grandfather had owned and there was no records of.
It's so different it's hard to imagine.
There is a gun in the family and one of the great great grand kids has it and has no idea of the history of the gun. It is black powder. A 1887 John Browning- Winchester 12 gunge probable cost him $25 as that was the advertised price. The gun had a bend in the barrel. The bend occurred when they were on an over night fishing trip and it started to rain and Grandpa stuck it under the wagon to keep it dry.The barrel was sticking out between the spokes of the wagon wheel. Harnessed the mules to the wagon and forgot about the gun when they started to move the barrel was bent. The story goes that Grandpa stuck the gun back in somewhere on the wagon and bent the barrel as close as he could and they were shooting it with that barrel bent. My Dad tells the story about he and his brother hunting with it. The gun was to heavy for either one to hold up to shoot . The gun was supported one one of the other shoulder and aimed at a squirrel. Dad said that they would lay the gun on the ground and after the smoke cleared they would try to find the squirrel. You can buy the replica of the gun now for about $2000. Dad and all of his brothers and sisters are gone now there was thirteen of them. I kick my butt quite often for not listening more to his stores and writing them down.

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by hurleyjd » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:19 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:45 am
I posted that because my daughter lives in Vermont. Some people actually have signs in their yards saying things like "we own guns, trespassers will be shot".
In USA we have to go through Background Criminal Investigation Check before we can purchase a gun. I don't necessarily agree with people owning assault type weapons, but I do NOT believe they should be banned. Only for the reason that if they ban one type, that opens the door for them to banned ALL.
I do not put much into studies - this was in the report I posted:
"While two studies found either no reduction in firearm deaths before and after the NFA, or a reduction only in firearm-related suicides, but not overall suicides, the methods for both of these studies were subsequently criticised by other researchers."
The problem is "we the people" will never let our government have that much control over us. How do "we the people" fight back if the government decided to be the dictator they want to be?
They will play he!! taking my guns and many others I know feel the same way.
I also do NOT think voluntary gun turn in will be successful here in USA.
The dictator will not come from the party you think it will. It will be one supposedly chosen by the creator and all of the religious folks will anoint and back and say the bible spoke of this dictator that had all of the answers in prophecy

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:11 am

Well we did survive Obumbler so we can survive about anything.
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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by SmokinM » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:38 am

Being as no one in this country agrees on a creator or if we even have one don’t see that happening Hurley. It will be the one that preaches fear well enough people surrender freedom for “protection”.

My post earlier disappeared also but I was wondering if any reduction in crime and or overall crime related deaths /suicides has been seen in Australia or just traded off using different methods. Certainly hasn’t slowed Chicago or NYC down. Also think suicides should be an excluded number. That is a personal choice and those truly serious about it will find a way. Any of you really savvy internet searchers can probably find that. Also opioid/ drug od deaths compared to gun deaths?

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by hurleyjd » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:40 am

TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:11 am
Well we did survive Obumbler so we can survive about anything.
I really hope so for the sake of my great grand kids coming along in this world.

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Re: Probably know shortly about 2nd amendment rights...

Post by Caustic Burno » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:19 am

hurleyjd wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:40 am
TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:11 am
Well we did survive Obumbler so we can survive about anything.
I really hope so for the sake of my great grand kids coming along in this world.
That’s the beauty of the system the founders came up with. It’s hard to get the House, Senate and WH on the same page. Hard for them to hurt us as long as their fighting.
We get screwed over every time one party gets control.
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