Our dogs

Ideas, questions and pictures of your friends.
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Ky hills
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Our dogs

Post by Ky hills » Fri May 24, 2019 9:12 pm

These are our dogs coming 3 yr old Blue Heeler, and 2 of her 8 month old pups by my Border Collie.
She had nest of birds treed
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This one is most like his Border Collie daddy.
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This one is more Heeler like, but extremely athletic and more passive than some Heelers.
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A rare moment when they are resting and not wrestling with each other
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Re: Our dogs

Post by Bright Raven » Sat May 25, 2019 5:32 am

I bet that made a good cross.
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Re: Our dogs

Post by Ky hills » Sat May 25, 2019 7:35 am

Bright Raven wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:32 am
I bet that made a good cross.
We think it made a good cross, both my wife and I are Heeler fans. I had a Border Collie that made every step I did outside he learned my routines and knew what I was going to do. I would sometimes change it just to throw him off. He was getting older and I wanted a pup from him. So we got the Heeler. I don’t know anything about training stock dogs but she picked up some on her own. Our cattle are very docile and when I go to drive them out of the barn lot it can be a chore a lot of them just stand and I have to become fairly animated to get them to move. Jip can get them moving and out surprisingly without being rough on them. I don’t know if the pups will eventually pick up anything or not but I think they do have potential.

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Re: Our dogs

Post by Bright Raven » Sat May 25, 2019 7:44 am

Ky hills wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:35 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:32 am
I bet that made a good cross.
We think it made a good cross, both my wife and I are Heeler fans. I had a Border Collie that made every step I did outside he learned my routines and knew what I was going to do. I would sometimes change it just to throw him off. He was getting older and I wanted a pup from him. So we got the Heeler. I don’t know anything about training stock dogs but she picked up some on her own. Our cattle are very docile and when I go to drive them out of the barn lot it can be a chore a lot of them just stand and I have to become fairly animated to get them to move. Jip can get them moving and out surprisingly without being rough on them. I don’t know if the pups will eventually pick up anything or not but I think they do have potential.
That combination should be excellent for cattle.
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Re: Our dogs

Post by 76 Bar » Sat May 25, 2019 12:42 pm

I bet that made a good cross.
I'd be concerned that crossing two breeds diametrically opposed to inherent working style would create a master of none, e.g. hard wired gathering versus driving.
That combination should be excellent for cattle.
How so?

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Re: Our dogs

Post by Bright Raven » Sat May 25, 2019 1:00 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:42 pm
I bet that made a good cross.
I'd be concerned that crossing two breeds diametrically opposed to inherent working style would create a master of none, e.g. hard wired gathering versus driving.
That combination should be excellent for cattle.
How so?
If Bill and his wife think it is a good cross, that is good enough for me.

Actually, I was being supportive. Would you be kind enough to provide an evaluation of the cross?
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Re: Our dogs

Post by Ky hills » Sat May 25, 2019 1:14 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:42 pm
I bet that made a good cross.
I'd be concerned that crossing two breeds diametrically opposed to inherent working style would create a master of none, e.g. hard wired gathering versus driving.
That combination should be excellent for cattle.
How so?
That is a valid point, that I have thought about that some too. In our situation my Border Collie came from lines that were involved in herding competitions. He himself wasn't really into herding, he was pretty much afraid of cattle unless they were caught in a chute then he would nip at their legs. Needless to say we left him out of the barn when working cattle. His role mainly was just being a companion/watch/guard dog. He mastered those roles to a T. When we got the female Blue Heeler, she came from working stock that had sent pups all over the country. Two of her littermates were sent to Montana. She picked up on driving cattle on her own. The pups exhibit behavior more like her and tend to be more like drivers when they have been around cattle.

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Re: Our dogs

Post by 76 Bar » Sat May 25, 2019 1:19 pm

If Bill and his wife think it is a good cross, that is good enough for me.
YMMV but 8 month old pups are just that and a work in progress.
Would you be kind enough to provide an evaluation of the cross?
But of course. Post videos.

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Re: Our dogs

Post by Bright Raven » Sat May 25, 2019 1:30 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:19 pm
If Bill and his wife think it is a good cross, that is good enough for me.
YMMV but 8 month old pups are just that and a work in progress.
Would you be kind enough to provide an evaluation of the cross?
But of course. Post videos.
Thanks. I honestly was being kindly. I saw Bill's post in the "Unanswered Posts" this morning and decided to be supportive. He has not recently had a lot of good news. An evaluation of the cross would be interesting and videos are always enjoyable.
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Re: Our dogs

Post by callmefence » Sat May 25, 2019 1:34 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:19 pm
If Bill and his wife think it is a good cross, that is good enough for me.
YMMV but 8 month old pups are just that and a work in progress.
Would you be kind enough to provide an evaluation of the cross?
But of course. Post videos.
[/quote


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Re: Our dogs

Post by Ky hills » Sat May 25, 2019 8:58 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:30 pm
76 Bar wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:19 pm
If Bill and his wife think it is a good cross, that is good enough for me.
YMMV but 8 month old pups are just that and a work in progress.
Would you be kind enough to provide an evaluation of the cross?
But of course. Post videos.
Thanks. I honestly was being kindly. I saw Bill's post in the "Unanswered Posts" this morning and decided to be supportive. He has not recently had a lot of good news. An evaluation of the cross would be interesting and videos are always enjoyable.
Thanks Ron, I appreciate your support. It has been a rough patch for a while. Today we went back to the hospital to see my cousins, their mother is in a hospice unit and not doing well. I felt I needed to go and try to be supportive of them during this time.
76 Bar, I would also like to know some first hand evaluations of that cross as well. The mother Heeler started “helping” me drive cattle at about the same time that the male Border Collie died so having actual working dogs wasn’t necessarily in our decision to get a litter of pups out of them. If they do work in some form that would be just gravy so to speak. We were mainly looking to continue the line of that BC for a companion and watchdog. The thing that I think I liked about crossing the two breeds is that Heelers have a shorter hair coat, are heavier built than BC’s, from the BC they get a little more height than most Heelers.

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Re: Our dogs

Post by 76 Bar » Sun May 26, 2019 4:10 pm

My original post was directed at BR's input. Rest assured I wasn't casting aspersions on you nor being judgmental. Appreciate your response & clarifications:
That is a valid point, that I have thought about that some too. In our situation my Border Collie came from lines that were involved in herding competitions. He himself wasn't really into herding, he was pretty much afraid of cattle unless they were caught in a chute then he would nip at their legs. Needless to say we left him out of the barn when working cattle. His role mainly was just being a companion/watch/guard dog. He mastered those roles to a T. When we got the female Blue Heeler, she came from working stock that had sent pups all over the country. Two of her littermates were sent to Montana. She picked up on driving cattle on her own. The pups exhibit behavior more like her and tend to be more like drivers when they have been around cattle.
In the best of circumstances pups are always a crapshoot regarding working prowess. Water under the bridge but if your BC failed to demonstrate a proclivity for working with the proviso that you hadn't discouraged him, reputable breeders would have made amens. Goes without saying, some lack the ability to effectively work cattle.
If from working and not show lines I'd expect your female would be adept at driving...its hard wired. If the pups are working along side her its logical she'd reinforce their driving instinct.
76 Bar, I would also like to know some first hand evaluations of that cross as well. The mother Heeler started “helping” me drive cattle at about the same time that the male Border Collie died so having actual working dogs wasn’t necessarily in our decision to get a litter of pups out of them. If they do work in some form that would be just gravy so to speak. We were mainly looking to continue the line of that BC for a companion and watchdog. The thing that I think I liked about crossing the two breeds is that Heelers have a shorter hair coat, are heavier built than BC’s, from the BC they get a little more height than most Heelers.
Hopefully my comments above have been insightful. Will gladly share further thoughts if you desire. It sounds as though you had a rough coated BC. Historically working ability is paramount & consequently superfluous issues such as size (from petite to 50+ lbs) coat length (from rough to slick) and color are personal choices.

Thought you might enjoy this article:
https://australiancattledog.club/index. ... dog-story/
FWIW Jack Woolsey DVM was a decades mentor and introduced me to Karrawarra Kelpies. Before his mutual relationship with Parson's Karrarrawa Kelpies he was briefly involved with importing Australian cattle dogs (not McNiven lines) from long time OZ breeders. They were rather tall, athletic dogs with a lot of leg under them. Far cry from the US ACD.

Apologies for being windy.












































































































































































































































































































































































































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alking cattle & working dogs





























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































. 8)

Sorry to hear you've encountered personal hardships.

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Re: Our dogs

Post by Ky hills » Sun May 26, 2019 6:34 pm

76 Bar wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 4:10 pm
My original post was directed at BR's input. Rest assured I wasn't casting aspersions on you nor being judgmental. Appreciate your response & clarifications:
That is a valid point, that I have thought about that some too. In our situation my Border Collie came from lines that were involved in herding competitions. He himself wasn't really into herding, he was pretty much afraid of cattle unless they were caught in a chute then he would nip at their legs. Needless to say we left him out of the barn when working cattle. His role mainly was just being a companion/watch/guard dog. He mastered those roles to a T. When we got the female Blue Heeler, she came from working stock that had sent pups all over the country. Two of her littermates were sent to Montana. She picked up on driving cattle on her own. The pups exhibit behavior more like her and tend to be more like drivers when they have been around cattle.
In the best of circumstances pups are always a crapshoot regarding working prowess. Water under the bridge but if your BC failed to demonstrate a proclivity for working with the proviso that you hadn't discouraged him, reputable breeders would have made amens. Goes without saying, some lack the ability to effectively work cattle.
If from working and not show lines I'd expect your female would be adept at driving...its hard wired. If the pups are working along side her its logical she'd reinforce their driving instinct.
76 Bar, I would also like to know some first hand evaluations of that cross as well. The mother Heeler started “helping” me drive cattle at about the same time that the male Border Collie died so having actual working dogs wasn’t necessarily in our decision to get a litter of pups out of them. If they do work in some form that would be just gravy so to speak. We were mainly looking to continue the line of that BC for a companion and watchdog. The thing that I think I liked about crossing the two breeds is that Heelers have a shorter hair coat, are heavier built than BC’s, from the BC they get a little more height than most Heelers.
Hopefully my comments above have been insightful. Will gladly share further thoughts if you desire. It sounds as though you had a rough coated BC. Historically working ability is paramount & consequently superfluous issues such as size (from petite to 50+ lbs) coat length (from rough to slick) and color are personal choices.

Thought you might enjoy this article:
https://australiancattledog.club/index. ... dog-story/
FWIW Jack Woolsey DVM was a decades mentor and introduced me to Karrawarra Kelpies. Before his mutual relationship with Parson's Karrarrawa Kelpies he was briefly involved with importing Australian cattle dogs (not McNiven lines) from long time OZ breeders. They were rather tall, athletic dogs with a lot of leg under them. Far cry from the US ACD.

Apologies for being windy.

Thank you 76 Bar, I was not bothered or offended in any way to your response. I appreciate your responses, you are very knowledgeable about dogs. I value your input, and have some questions for you if you don’t mind?
My original. BC was a very obedient and clingy dog to me no one else could get anything out of him if I was around. He was extremely protective of me. One of the pups is already exhibiting that same behavior. Would it be possible at this point to get him to not be aggressive to others? He has just started the behavior within the last couple weeks.










































































































































































































































































































































































































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alking cattle & working dogs





























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































. 8)

Sorry to hear you've encountered personal hardships.

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Re: Our dogs

Post by 76 Bar » Mon May 27, 2019 2:41 pm

Thank you 76 Bar, I was not bothered or offended in any way to your response. I appreciate your responses, you are very knowledgeable about dogs. I value your input, and have some questions for you if you don’t mind?
My original. BC was a very obedient and clingy dog to me no one else could get anything out of him if I was around. He was extremely protective of me. One of the pups is already exhibiting that same behavior. Would it be possible at this point to get him to not be aggressive to others? He has just started the behavior within the last couple weeks.
Thank you for the compliment...its much appreciated. Suffice it to say quality cattle & dogs have been my passion for many moons.
BC's are notorious for being exceptionally bidable and devoted to "their person" to the point of clinginess. Its imbedded in their DNA. Love it or hate it, its a fact.
If I'm interpreting it correctly, one of the youngsters is displaying "resource guarding" e.g. for whatever reason you made his world go round & he resents interlopers. If so, it likely began months ago but went unnoticed. An aside, keeping a number of litter mates to adulthood appears to exacerbate this issue. Been there done that. 8 months is closing in on mental adulthood proclivities. Without being abusive, I'd make it clear in no uncertain terms that aggressive behavior won't be tolerated. Hope that's helpful.

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