why do we feed supplement ?

Backgrounding & feeding questions.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:12 pm

snoopdog wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:06 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:49 pm
snoopdog wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:42 pm
What does that mean CB? Standing grass is garbage? Do you mean in your area, at this time, because that don't make no sense to those of us that have good fall pasture. Hay cost is the biggest cost, and the later you start feeding hay the cheaper you get through the winter. Now, everyone is different, and everyones cows have different needs going into winter, dry or wet, 2nd or third trimester, or prebreeding. I can't believe, that someone can post an answer like that. I have a lot of respect for you but there is no blanket answer, to any of it, even the tubs.
I didn't take that post literally. Standing grass has value. I assume he means that the protein levels decrease later in the year, thus, if you have good grass hay, it is likely to have more crude protein and total digestible nutrients than some standing pasture grasses.

In regard to protein tubs, they are an expensive way to supplement protein if your hay is say less than 9 % crude protein. For the same money, you can buy more actual pounds of protein in say a 16 % formulated feed than you get for the same money in a protein tub.

Just a thought. I think many posters fail to communicate their thoughts by trying to be too brief.
I agree, but even frosted bermuda has a deteriating protein level, just because its brown, doesn't mean it is not good forage. When you calculate tub value, and by the way I do agree that for protein levels only , it is the most expensive way. You also have to consider the mineral cost , that you are replacing with that tub.Most tubs that I have used, have eliminated mineral supplementation.
If I needed protein, I would use a Protein only tub. You really have to be careful as you know. Some folks think they are making up for low protein hay and they are getting mostly mineral. I think tubs are convenient but if you really need a supplement for low protein, I would get a good formulated feed. I might be wrong, maybe TexasBred can add to this.


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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by snoopdog » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:26 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:12 pm
snoopdog wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:06 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:49 pm


I didn't take that post literally. Standing grass has value. I assume he means that the protein levels decrease later in the year, thus, if you have good grass hay, it is likely to have more crude protein and total digestible nutrients than some standing pasture grasses.

In regard to protein tubs, they are an expensive way to supplement protein if your hay is say less than 9 % crude protein. For the same money, you can buy more actual pounds of protein in say a 16 % formulated feed than you get for the same money in a protein tub. Absolutely, I think you need to get your hay tested.

Just a thought. I think many posters fail to communicate their thoughts by trying to be too brief.
I agree, but even frosted bermuda has a deteriating protein level, just because its brown, doesn't mean it is not good forage. When you calculate tub value, and by the way I do agree that for protein levels only , it is the most expensive way. You also have to consider the mineral cost , that you are replacing with that tub.Most tubs that I have used, have eliminated mineral supplementation.
If I needed protein, I would use a Protein only tub. You really have to be careful as you know. Some folks think they are making up for low protein hay and they are getting mostly mineral. I think tubs are convenient but if you really need a supplement for low protein, I would get a good formulated feed. I might be wrong, maybe TexasBred can add to this.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Lucky » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:20 pm

Have the standing grass tested and see what the feed value is. Might be excellent might be garbage. The only real way to tell if you need to supplement and how much to supplement is by having the main feed source tested. I’m not to far from CB and agree that most standing grass around here has little value, especially in late winter when cattle really need to be fed properly. Like CB says you can’t starve a profit out of a cow and the cheapest feed isn’t always the best value.

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Lucky » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:25 pm

rjbovine wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:10 pm
Please explain why supplement is needed in a cow calf operation. I'm feeding around 4 lb. corn and free choice , mature headed out fescue/OG hay. Do to poor hay making conditions. I'm also adding supplement ,top dressed with the corn . Just question why its needed . When I write the check the feed man smiles, and says they need it . Thanks rj :?
Maybe this will help
https://fyi.extension.wisc.edu/wbic/fil ... raft-4.pdf

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Ebenezer » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:25 am

rjbovine wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:10 pm
Please explain why supplement is needed in a cow calf operation. I'm feeding around 4 lb. corn and free choice , mature headed out fescue/OG hay. Do to poor hay making conditions. I'm also adding supplement ,top dressed with the corn . Just question why its needed . When I write the check the feed man smiles, and says they need it . Thanks rj :?
What stage are the cows in? Gestation, lactation, ... If they are in gestation we just graze fescue and keep out minerals. Also what is the body condition score? If they are thin the fat in the corn will help but otherwise could be a waste. Are these cows a fit for your environment? Too big or too heavy has consequences just like too small does.

The thing that helps is that we calve in late winter on purpose so that the majority of winter feed needs is minimized. Sounds like they are being over supplemented from the brief description.

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:26 am

Standing grass does not have to have good protein levels to have feed value....that's why you supplement it.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:42 am

Took some quick pictures of the field fixing to get cows turned on it. Frost killed haygrazer with oats notilled in. The tall grass in the background is bluestem and Kline. When they finish here there is another similar for them.
Depending on weather they will be rotated back and forth or maybe put on hay and the oats saved for haying. IDK but they certainly won't be getting fed anything.



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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by BFE » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:43 am

I've always heard the worst grass is better than the best hay. In my experience it's true. They'll come through winter better grazing than standing around a hay ring.

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Caustic Burno » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:46 am

BFE wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:43 am
I've always heard the worst grass is better than the best hay. In my experience it's true. They'll come through winter better grazing than standing around a hay ring.
So someone blew smoke about grass with 5% protein is better than hay with 12%. Last I checked hay was grass as well. All the time the cow is walking off pounds trying to fill a holler belly on low quality forage.

We used to not feed a bale of hay back in the 60’s and 70’s and most cows did survive the winters. BCS suffered conception rates were horrible.
It took 15 or so of those back forty cows to make 10 of the beef animals today. We didn’t vaccinate either because there weren’t any, good chance over half your cows weren’t producing due to bangs or lepto.
Big difference in owning cattle and beef production.
I run sale-barn cattle.

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:08 am

Caustic Burno wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:46 am
BFE wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:43 am
I've always heard the worst grass is better than the best hay. In my experience it's true. They'll come through winter better grazing than standing around a hay ring.
So someone blew smoke about grass with 5% protein is better than hay with 12%. Last I checked hay was grass as well. All the time the cow is walking off pounds trying to fill a holler belly on low quality forage.

We used to not feed a bale of hay back in the 60’s and 70’s and most cows did survive the winters. BCS suffered conception rates were horrible.
It took 15 or so of those back forty cows to make 10 of the beef animals today. We didn’t vaccinate either because there weren’t any, good chance over half your cows weren’t producing due to bangs or lepto.
Big difference in owning cattle and beef production.
So you roll up your grass. Stack and store it. Pull it out and. Feed it every day
So your cows don't have to walk...you go ahead. I'll pass on the welfare cattle
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Caustic Burno » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:47 am

Fence there is a need for back forty cattle at the sale barn, they need something for dog food. Supplemented on 900 dollar a ton tubs. No thanks.
I run sale-barn cattle.

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Lucky » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:18 am

The easiest way to tell if cows needs a supplement is too look at their poop. Best thing about the poop study is that it works any time of year and in any conditions. Early spring might fool you but generally just look at the poop.

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:33 am

Caustic Burno wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:47 am
Fence there is a need for back forty cattle at the sale barn, they need something for dog food. Supplemented on 900 dollar a ton tubs. No thanks.
I've got nothing liking tubs or hay. I've shown my pasture. It and the calves in my pasture will out shine yours. Why don't you quit making a fool of yourself.
The topic of this thread is supplementing standing grass. See if you can't find your way out of the weeds
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by alisonb » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:37 pm

callmefence wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:33 am
The topic of this thread is supplementing standing grass.
Don't see where OP mentions 'standing grass'???
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:24 pm

alisonb wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:37 pm
callmefence wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:33 am
The topic of this thread is supplementing standing grass.
Don't see where OP mentions 'standing grass'???

With my hat in hand you are correct. I should have said the the topic of this conversation.
Meaning the ongoing conversation between four people which started around mid thread.
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