why do we feed supplement ?

Backgrounding & feeding questions.
rjbovine
Cowhand
Cowhand
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:49 pm
Location: southern il.
Been thanked: 2 times

why do we feed supplement ?

Post by rjbovine » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:10 pm

Please explain why supplement is needed in a cow calf operation. I'm feeding around 4 lb. corn and free choice , mature headed out fescue/OG hay. Do to poor hay making conditions. I'm also adding supplement ,top dressed with the corn . Just question why its needed . When I write the check the feed man smiles, and says they need it . Thanks rj :?



User avatar
kenny thomas
GURU
GURU
Posts: 9684
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: SW tip of Virginia
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 618 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by kenny thomas » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:02 pm

You may not need it. If my cow needs suppliment to make it she goes to market.
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

User avatar
HDRider
GURU
GURU
Posts: 5384
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:25 am
Location: NE Arkansas
Has thanked: 218 times
Been thanked: 354 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by HDRider » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:57 am

I plan to keep protein tubs out this winter to supplement my hay.

I don't feed when I have grass growing. I try to balance my cow numbers with my grass production.

Hay is far and away my highest expense.
bball wrote: "The juice wasn't worth the squeeze."
Dun said, "You gotta be flexible. Do whatever you have to do for the best results within your limitations."

User avatar
1982vett
GURU
GURU
Posts: 9163
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Central Texas
Has thanked: 164 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by 1982vett » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:47 am

What is the protein content of “mature headed out fescue/OG hay” made during poor haying conditions. Knowing that is the first step in understanding the need and to what extent you need to supplement in your current conditions.

For instance...this year I plan to use a supplement for the first time since 2010, the year I finally understood that feeding the supplement I was feeding was for my peace of mind and that the cows really didn’t need it because my forage and hay program was sufficient. The protein content of hay I plan to use ranges from 6.9% to 10.0% with the majority falling in the 9% range. Roughly half the cows have calves.
Aug 7, 2019 22:51GMT -5 the illustrious potentate said:
Because you have the freedom to say what you think, doesn't always mean that you should.

The right to speak freely is not free of consequences.

DCA farm
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:45 am
Location: beauregard Parish Louisiana
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 89 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by DCA farm » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:06 am

I supplement to keep them easy to move and easy to pen I want them to follow me when Im in pasture. When the grass ain’t growing and I’m feeding hay I may feed just a little more but not much and not everyday unless somethings wrong

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 25600
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 1252 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Caustic Burno » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:08 am

HDRider wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:57 am
I plan to keep protein tubs out this winter to supplement my hay.

I don't feed when I have grass growing. I try to balance my cow numbers with my grass production.

Hay is far and away my highest expense.
Hay is actually your cheapest source when you compare price.
Good fertilized hay is 100 dollars a ton
provides over 50 days forage per cow at 35 lbs per day. Good hay is the only winter supplement a cow should need besides minerals. It’s the cheapest source we have. The tub is over 900 dollars a ton.
I run sale-barn cattle.

User avatar
HDRider
GURU
GURU
Posts: 5384
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:25 am
Location: NE Arkansas
Has thanked: 218 times
Been thanked: 354 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by HDRider » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:27 am

My hay needs a little help
bball wrote: "The juice wasn't worth the squeeze."
Dun said, "You gotta be flexible. Do whatever you have to do for the best results within your limitations."

callmefence
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6655
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:36 pm
Location: Fencemans place...central Texas
Has thanked: 675 times
Been thanked: 1042 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:38 am

Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:08 am
HDRider wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:57 am
I plan to keep protein tubs out this winter to supplement my hay.

I don't feed when I have grass growing. I try to balance my cow numbers with my grass production.

Hay is far and away my highest expense.
Hay is actually your cheapest source when you compare price.
Good fertilized hay is 100 dollars a ton
provides over 50 days forage per cow at 35 lbs per day. Good hay is the only winter supplement a cow should need besides minerals. It’s the cheapest source we have. The tub is over 900 dollars a ton.
If you have standing grass, hay is not your cheapest, supplement. And 35 lbs per day is not a supplement it's a full ration.
Support your local hardworking white boy.




You can all go to he// . I'll go to Texas.
David Crockett

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 25600
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 1252 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Caustic Burno » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:08 pm

callmefence wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:38 am
Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:08 am
HDRider wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:57 am
I plan to keep protein tubs out this winter to supplement my hay.

I don't feed when I have grass growing. I try to balance my cow numbers with my grass production.

Hay is far and away my highest expense.
Hay is actually your cheapest source when you compare price.
Good fertilized hay is 100 dollars a ton
provides over 50 days forage per cow at 35 lbs per day. Good hay is the only winter supplement a cow should need besides minerals. It’s the cheapest source we have. The tub is over 900 dollars a ton.
If you have standing grass, hay is not your cheapest, supplement. And 35 lbs per day is not a supplement it's a full ration.
Most standing grass is garbage + the price of a tubs makes hay the cheapest.
Can’t starve profit into a cow.
I run sale-barn cattle.

User avatar
Caustic Burno
Crusty
Crusty
Posts: 25600
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Big Thicket East Texas
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 1252 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Caustic Burno » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:23 pm

HDRider wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:27 am
My hay needs a little help
Range meal is a better supplement to help sorry hay IMO.
That’s 2-1-1 Corn-CSM-Salt.
I run sale-barn cattle.

callmefence
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6655
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:36 pm
Location: Fencemans place...central Texas
Has thanked: 675 times
Been thanked: 1042 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:55 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:08 pm
callmefence wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:38 am
Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:08 am


Hay is actually your cheapest source when you compare price.
Good fertilized hay is 100 dollars a ton
provides over 50 days forage per cow at 35 lbs per day. Good hay is the only winter supplement a cow should need besides minerals. It’s the cheapest source we have. The tub is over 900 dollars a ton.
If you have standing grass, hay is not your cheapest, supplement. And 35 lbs per day is not a supplement it's a full ration.
Most standing grass is garbage + the price of a tubs makes hay the cheapest.
Can’t starve profit into a cow.
Notill some oats in that garbage and you've got the cheapest winter grazing there is. Who said anything about tubs.
Whole cottenseed at a couple pounds a day on standing grass way cheaper than wasting good hay when you have grass
Support your local hardworking white boy.




You can all go to he// . I'll go to Texas.
David Crockett

callmefence
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6655
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:36 pm
Location: Fencemans place...central Texas
Has thanked: 675 times
Been thanked: 1042 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:30 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:23 pm
HDRider wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:27 am
My hay needs a little help
Range meal is a better supplement to help sorry hay IMO.
That’s 2-1-1 Corn-CSM-Salt.
I agree range meal is a good way to supplement. I don't understand why you would supplement sorry hay but not believe in supplementing standing grass.....I just dont make sense.
Support your local hardworking white boy.




You can all go to he// . I'll go to Texas.
David Crockett

User avatar
snoopdog
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:16 am
Location: ne oklahoma
Has thanked: 828 times
Been thanked: 295 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by snoopdog » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:42 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:08 pm
callmefence wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:38 am
Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:08 am


Hay is actually your cheapest source when you compare price.
Good fertilized hay is 100 dollars a ton
provides over 50 days forage per cow at 35 lbs per day. Good hay is the only winter supplement a cow should need besides minerals. It’s the cheapest source we have. The tub is over 900 dollars a ton.
If you have standing grass, hay is not your cheapest, supplement. And 35 lbs per day is not a supplement it's a full ration.
Most standing grass is garbage + the price of a tubs makes hay the cheapest.
Can’t starve profit into a cow.
What does that mean CB? Standing grass is garbage? Do you mean in your area, at this time, because that don't make no sense to those of us that have good fall pasture. Hay cost is the biggest cost, and the later you start feeding hay the cheaper you get through the winter. Now, everyone is different, and everyones cows have different needs going into winter, dry or wet, 2nd or third trimester, or prebreeding. I can't believe, that someone can post an answer like that. I have a lot of respect for you but there is no blanket answer, to any of it, even the tubs.
Being poor is the most expensive thing there is

User avatar
Bright Raven
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 10701
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 914 times
Been thanked: 954 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:49 pm

snoopdog wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:42 pm
Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:08 pm
callmefence wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:38 am


If you have standing grass, hay is not your cheapest, supplement. And 35 lbs per day is not a supplement it's a full ration.
Most standing grass is garbage + the price of a tubs makes hay the cheapest.
Can’t starve profit into a cow.
What does that mean CB? Standing grass is garbage? Do you mean in your area, at this time, because that don't make no sense to those of us that have good fall pasture. Hay cost is the biggest cost, and the later you start feeding hay the cheaper you get through the winter. Now, everyone is different, and everyones cows have different needs going into winter, dry or wet, 2nd or third trimester, or prebreeding. I can't believe, that someone can post an answer like that. I have a lot of respect for you but there is no blanket answer, to any of it, even the tubs.
I didn't take that post literally. Standing grass has value. I assume he means that the protein levels decrease later in the year, thus, if you have good grass hay, it is likely to have more crude protein and total digestible nutrients than some standing pasture grasses.

In regard to protein tubs, they are an expensive way to supplement protein if your hay is say less than 9 % crude protein. For the same money, you can buy more actual pounds of protein in say a 16 % formulated feed than you get for the same money in a protein tub.

Just a thought. I think many posters fail to communicate their thoughts by trying to be too brief.
"Looking for an honest man".
Diogenes.

User avatar
snoopdog
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:16 am
Location: ne oklahoma
Has thanked: 828 times
Been thanked: 295 times

Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by snoopdog » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:06 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:49 pm
snoopdog wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:42 pm
Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:08 pm


Most standing grass is garbage + the price of a tubs makes hay the cheapest.
Can’t starve profit into a cow.
What does that mean CB? Standing grass is garbage? Do you mean in your area, at this time, because that don't make no sense to those of us that have good fall pasture. Hay cost is the biggest cost, and the later you start feeding hay the cheaper you get through the winter. Now, everyone is different, and everyones cows have different needs going into winter, dry or wet, 2nd or third trimester, or prebreeding. I can't believe, that someone can post an answer like that. I have a lot of respect for you but there is no blanket answer, to any of it, even the tubs.
I didn't take that post literally. Standing grass has value. I assume he means that the protein levels decrease later in the year, thus, if you have good grass hay, it is likely to have more crude protein and total digestible nutrients than some standing pasture grasses.

In regard to protein tubs, they are an expensive way to supplement protein if your hay is say less than 9 % crude protein. For the same money, you can buy more actual pounds of protein in say a 16 % formulated feed than you get for the same money in a protein tub.

Just a thought. I think many posters fail to communicate their thoughts by trying to be too brief.
I agree, but even frosted bermuda has a deteriating protein level, just because its brown, doesn't mean it is not good forage. When you calculate tub value, and by the way I do agree that for protein levels only , it is the most expensive way. You also have to consider the mineral cost , that you are replacing with that tub.Most tubs that I have used, have eliminated mineral supplementation.
Being poor is the most expensive thing there is

Post Reply