why do we feed supplement ?

Backgrounding & feeding questions.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:06 pm

"Old saying you want to slip in it not trip over it." :lol: :lol: Never heard that one!!! Love it.


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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:20 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:51 pm
callmefence wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:02 pm
Caustic Burno wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:50 pm


A 21% blend that is 21 lbs of N to the 100 lbs of fertilizer.So you would have to throw 250 lbs per acre to get 52 lbs of N.
That’s actually below TAMU’s recommendation
http://publications.tamu.edu/FORAGE/PUB ... 0Texas.pdf
That's straight ammonia sulfate.more than Twice the cost of urea. The only reason to use it is if you're trying to correct soil pH. If you don't know what your doing......then your right , just buy hay and bagged feed.
Wrong again it’s nitrate not sulfate.
It’s all about soil needs to produce forage not the cheapest.
Nitrate is iirc 36 percent. So what is the blend you require.
And your right about what the soil needs. My soil is different than yours. But you where talking nitrogen, if you're spending that just to meet 50 pounds of nitrogen , you should take a class.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by 1982vett » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:17 pm

Lucky wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:22 pm
The deal with planting winter forage is all about timing. Most people just don’t have the time to hit it just right. Fence is lucky enough to work for himself and have employees that can help get oats in. I feed hay and supplement according to hay quality as a necessity due to time. I have a neighbor that plants oats every year and does well with it but he’s a full time farmer. Bottom line is it cost money to feed cows and everyone needs to do what works best in their situation. It’s fun to talk about it though and you never know you might even find a better way if you keep an open mind.
Just to clarify, I no-till as fence is recommending. It’s on the 60 acres I used to prepare a seedbed for the oats. After 2011 I’ve not been more than 60% stocked to prior numbers so maximum production isn’t a goal anymore. I was experimenting with the no-till idea in 2009 and 2010 with some success on 20 acres I had planted to Bermuda. Was trying to get more winter grazing than just the ryegrass it grew. If I could grow more forage I could buy a couple more cows.... :secret: ....It’s been 6 or 7 years since I sunk a plow in it. If I stay stocked as I am now the rest of the place can grow enough cool season grasses not to have to rely on a “farmed” field of oats. Last year I had a lot more “standing” grass when the frost burned it off...winter grasses had a lot of cover It had to grow through. Not so much a problem this year.
Aug 7, 2019 22:51GMT -5 the illustrious potentate said:
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:52 pm

bball wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:37 pm
rjbovine wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:24 pm
I agree I should have hay tested . Feeding the corn I'm ok with . I asking more about adding the 34% supplement to the corn . These are fall calving cows with calves on them . Also there isn't much pasture mostly dry lot. Keeping an eye on the poop is a good idea.Thanks rj
This Is TBs area of expertise. However, I will make an attempt to offer a simple understanding. Whole corn is roughly 9% protein. Approximately 65% of that is bypass protein, meaning the cow absorbs it in the small intestine and it is not broken down by the rumen microorganisms. The remaining 35% is used by the fauna in the rumen for their own growth and protein synthesis. Consequently, diets high in corn, in order to optimize the nutrition available from corn, require protein supplementation. Think of it like this, and this is extremely simplistic I know, but essentially the rumen microbes need protein to grow and synthesis additional proteins; so you are feeding the microbes protein so the cow can use the corn in the most ideal way possible. The microbes do the work to break down the corn and you have to feed the microbes if you want them to work.
Good post
I've never thought much of just using corn to supplement hay or grass. I've got a bin of corn I'm feeding calves right now. I'm adding about 20 percent cottenseed meal to it and some good hay and there's some winter grass coming on in their pasture. I don't know if this is a perfect ration, but they look good to me.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by rjbovine » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:08 am

Thanks bball for the explanation . Winter showed up yesterday in Wayne Co. Thanks rj

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by BFE » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:12 am

rjbovine wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:08 am
Thanks bball for the explanation . Winter showed up yesterday in Wayne Co. Thanks rj
Burnt Prairie blacktop?

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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:44 am

I can get away with feeding corn, because my hay is generally 15-16% protein.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Bright Raven » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:54 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:44 am
I can get away with feeding corn, because my hay is generally 15-16% protein.
You cannot find GRASS hay that high here. To get to those levels it requires some alfalfa.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by 1982vett » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:18 am

Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:54 am
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:44 am
I can get away with feeding corn, because my hay is generally 15-16% protein.
You cannot find GRASS hay that high here. To get to those levels it requires some alfalfa.
If I didn’t know y’all were in the show cattle business and in a colder climate I’d have to question feeding corn at all with your 15-16% hay.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:18 am

The pasture the cows are in now. Bermuda grass with Kline and bluestem in the brush.
The plowed ground is oats just starting to peek.
I plowed it up deep because I'm gonna sprig it in February-march. The cows will be moved in a
Few days.
Image

Clover no tilled into Bermuda.

Image
They will be going here oats , notilled into hybrid Sudan. Lots of native grass around this field as well.


Image

Some oats right outside the house. Both me and Dad can hunt from our houses.

Image
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by callmefence » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:28 am

Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:44 am
I can get away with feeding corn, because my hay is generally 15-16% protein.
My gawd ......
It ain't bragging if you can do it.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by bball » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:08 pm

rjbovine wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:08 am
Thanks bball for the explanation . Winter showed up yesterday in Wayne Co. Thanks rj
Yes. We ended up with 3 inches snow, strong winds and temp at 12 degrees this am. It's here too! :cry:
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by bball » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:22 pm

callmefence wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:18 am
The pasture the cows are in now. Bermuda grass with Kline and bluestem in the brush.
The plowed ground is oats just starting to peek.
I plowed it up deep because I'm gonna sprig it in February-march. The cows will be moved in a
Few days.
Image

Clover no tilled into Bermuda.

Image
They will be going here oats , notilled into hybrid Sudan. Lots of native grass around this field as well.


Image

Some oats right outside the house. Both me and Dad can hunt from our houses.

Image
At the risk of being accused of patronizing you :) , you post some excellent pics of quality winter forages. Looks like you do a great job with it too. I am a bit envious. Currently, we have 43 cows out on approximately 300 acres of corn stubble. Its an odd year because there is more corn than my FIL has ever seen in his 60 plus years farming that farm. We arent sure if it was ear drop, different combine head, travel speed, but there is so much corn out there, we had to divide off a 70 acre loafing area. We let them clean the corn up here, controlled, until there is no risk of foundering. On the remaining acres, we can only let them out for an hour at a time per day(so they don't founder) for at least another month before it's safe to cut them out longer. Its amazing how much corn they can find and eat in an hours time.
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:13 pm

1982vett wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:18 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:54 am
Jeanne - Simme Valley wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:44 am
I can get away with feeding corn, because my hay is generally 15-16% protein.
You cannot find GRASS hay that high here. To get to those levels it requires some alfalfa.
If I didn’t know y’all were in the show cattle business and in a colder climate I’d have to question feeding corn at all with your 15-16% hay.
Some of my hayfields were planted by my husband about 15 years ago (30 acres) and the 50 acres I rent was planted back in 1987. I think we have frost seeded some clover in it maybe 2-3 times to get a different variety in it. But, clover grows on our ground natural. It's generally a small clover, but it's there. We put up baleage generally about June 7-10. Mostly mixture of grasses, generally "in boot".
I only feed corn to my show string during the summer, 3-4 fall born steers we feed out for freezer trade, and right now feeding my spring born replacement heifers. They get about 5#/hd/day all winter thru getting bred next spring. Once they get turned out to pasture with the herd, they don't get corn. Oh yeah, and I am supplementing my 7 fall born calves with WSC and oats. I usually don't put any grain out to them until about end of December, but there are two sets of twins in the group, so they are getting pampered.
But, I wanted to point out that "because" I have high protein hay, the corn works perfect for supplement. Even the newborns are eating the hay.
Edit: clarifying I DO NOT feed my COWS (bred 2-yr olds on up) anything but hay. LOL that's all they need! My cows are not my pets. They are my business. People think showing is frivolous, but I make money showing. That is my cheapest advertisement (and I get paid winning premiums that generally offset most of the expense).
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Re: why do we feed supplement ?

Post by rjbovine » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:03 pm

bball I went back and reread your post . Interesting stuff . I need to study on this . Thanks rj

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