Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

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Hpacres440p
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Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Hpacres440p » Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:57 am

We have a 2 year old brangus heifer who aborted 7mo calf in September. She cycled in early October, and we thought bred back to our young Aberdeen (Lowline) bull, as she did not cycle again for 70 days-she has had a super-regular 21 day cycle prior to her initial AI breeding. Well, neighbors moved their herd next door with their 2 Char bulls, tons of young calves, and all the sudden she starts bellowing like she’s in heat again. We did do blood testing on her after aborting, nothing showed up other than vaccine-level tigers for BVD and IBR. We have a super small herd, our other AI’d heifer has a 2 week old calf on the ground. Lowline bull is destined for freezer camp in February.
Was it just too early for her to effectively settle after aborting (about 28 day’s post when we think she was bred). Can extra neighbor hormone levels cause her to cycle again? We planned to preg-check her Jan 11, we’ll take her to vet either way to see what is happening. Any suggestions? Cull market is too low to sell at sale barn, our freezer is about to be (planned) full, sell to someone who can run her with a bull on pasture? Thanks for any help



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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Katpau » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:20 am

My theory would be that your cow settled but lost the fetus. The fertilized egg floats freely in the uterus for the first 30-35 days and then attaches to the uterine wall to continue developing. The heifers uterus might not have been ready to support life after the recent lose of that calf. After the fetus died the corpus luteum would cease to produce the progesterone that was needed to maintain the pregnancy and the cycle of egg production and oestrus (standing heat) would return. 70 days sounds about right for that to happen.

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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Hpacres440p » Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:50 pm

Katpau wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:20 am
My theory would be that your cow settled but lost the fetus. The fertilized egg floats freely in the uterus for the first 30-35 days and then attaches to the uterine wall to continue developing. The heifers uterus might not have been ready to support life after the recent lose of that calf. After the fetus died the corpus luteum would cease to produce the progesterone that was needed to maintain the pregnancy and the cycle of egg production and oestrus (standing heat) would return. 70 days sounds about right for that to happen.

So her not settling is not necessarily a fault of hers, more of a physiologic fact and it sounds like we expected too much too early...

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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Katpau » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:13 pm

That is my thought, but without knowing why she lost the first calf it is hard to say whether she is worth the risk of trying again. If you really like her, and you can afford to wait another year for a calf, try again. I probably wouldn't, because I've got more than enough replacement heifers I'd like to breed. If I cull a cow I can keep one more heifer.

I use to give second chances to the ones I liked, but it often ended up with a cow that would have issues again within a few years. Now I maintain what might be called a "no excuses policy". I think it has improved the overall fertility of the herd. This year I had a really nice registered yearling heifer out of one of my best cows come back in heat on the day I pulled the bull. I'd had high hopes for her based on her pedigree and looks. She had been bred AI and then run with a bull for 60 days. I expect she settled to the AI and then lost it. Who knows why. I sold her at the sale barn by the pound. It hurt, but I've decided no more second chances.

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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Hpacres440p wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:57 am
We have a 2 year old brangus heifer who aborted 7mo calf in September. She cycled in early October, and we thought bred back to our young Aberdeen (Lowline) bull, as she did not cycle again for 70 days-she has had a super-regular 21 day cycle prior to her initial AI breeding. Well, neighbors moved their herd next door with their 2 Char bulls, tons of young calves, and all the sudden she starts bellowing like she’s in heat again. We did do blood testing on her after aborting, nothing showed up other than vaccine-level tigers for BVD and IBR. We have a super small herd, our other AI’d heifer has a 2 week old calf on the ground. Lowline bull is destined for freezer camp in February.
Was it just too early for her to effectively settle after aborting (about 28 day’s post when we think she was bred). Can extra neighbor hormone levels cause her to cycle again? We planned to preg-check her Jan 11, we’ll take her to vet either way to see what is happening. Any suggestions? Cull market is too low to sell at sale barn, our freezer is about to be (planned) full, sell to someone who can run her with a bull on pasture? Thanks for any help
When she aborted with a 7 month old fetus, did you confirm that she passed the placenta? Sometimes when they abort, they retain the placenta. If the uterus was not well healed due to the continued effects of a retained placenta, it would account for her not breeding back and holding a pregnancy.
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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Hpacres440p » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:27 pm

Bright Raven wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:30 pm
Hpacres440p wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:57 am
We have a 2 year old brangus heifer who aborted 7mo calf in September. She cycled in early October, and we thought bred back to our young Aberdeen (Lowline) bull, as she did not cycle again for 70 days-she has had a super-regular 21 day cycle prior to her initial AI breeding. Well, neighbors moved their herd next door with their 2 Char bulls, tons of young calves, and all the sudden she starts bellowing like she’s in heat again. We did do blood testing on her after aborting, nothing showed up other than vaccine-level tigers for BVD and IBR. We have a super small herd, our other AI’d heifer has a 2 week old calf on the ground. Lowline bull is destined for freezer camp in February.
Was it just too early for her to effectively settle after aborting (about 28 day’s post when we think she was bred). Can extra neighbor hormone levels cause her to cycle again? We planned to preg-check her Jan 11, we’ll take her to vet either way to see what is happening. Any suggestions? Cull market is too low to sell at sale barn, our freezer is about to be (planned) full, sell to someone who can run her with a bull on pasture? Thanks for any help
When she aborted with a 7 month old fetus, did you confirm that she passed the placenta? Sometimes when they abort, they retain the placenta. If the uterus was not well healed due to the continued effects of a retained placenta, it would account for her not breeding back and holding a pregnancy.
She did retain partial placenta for about a week

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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Bright Raven » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:21 am

Hpacres440p wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:27 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:30 pm
Hpacres440p wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:57 am
We have a 2 year old brangus heifer who aborted 7mo calf in September. She cycled in early October, and we thought bred back to our young Aberdeen (Lowline) bull, as she did not cycle again for 70 days-she has had a super-regular 21 day cycle prior to her initial AI breeding. Well, neighbors moved their herd next door with their 2 Char bulls, tons of young calves, and all the sudden she starts bellowing like she’s in heat again. We did do blood testing on her after aborting, nothing showed up other than vaccine-level tigers for BVD and IBR. We have a super small herd, our other AI’d heifer has a 2 week old calf on the ground. Lowline bull is destined for freezer camp in February.
Was it just too early for her to effectively settle after aborting (about 28 day’s post when we think she was bred). Can extra neighbor hormone levels cause her to cycle again? We planned to preg-check her Jan 11, we’ll take her to vet either way to see what is happening. Any suggestions? Cull market is too low to sell at sale barn, our freezer is about to be (planned) full, sell to someone who can run her with a bull on pasture? Thanks for any help
When she aborted with a 7 month old fetus, did you confirm that she passed the placenta? Sometimes when they abort, they retain the placenta. If the uterus was not well healed due to the continued effects of a retained placenta, it would account for her not breeding back and holding a pregnancy.
She did retain partial placenta for about a week
If the uterus is still in the process of clearing debris, getting a pregnancy is not likely. I have one now that aborted at 7 months into gestation in mid-October. I AI bred her at 8:00 am on Friday 12/19/2019. The manipulation of her cervix during the process of insemination disturbed some remaining debris in her uterus. I went out to observe her at noon. She had a discharge of what was clearly "debris" from the uterus. She will turn 21 days on 01/09/2020. I have very low expectations that the breeding will achieve a conception.
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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Hpacres440p » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:03 am

Bright Raven wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:21 am
Hpacres440p wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:27 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:30 pm


When she aborted with a 7 month old fetus, did you confirm that she passed the placenta? Sometimes when they abort, they retain the placenta. If the uterus was not well healed due to the continued effects of a retained placenta, it would account for her not breeding back and holding a pregnancy.
She did retain partial placenta for about a week
If the uterus is still in the process of clearing debris, getting a pregnancy is not likely. I have one now that aborted at 7 months into gestation in mid-October. I AI bred her at 8:00 am on Friday 12/19/2019. The manipulation of her cervix during the process of insemination disturbed some remaining debris in her uterus. I went out to observe her at noon. She had a discharge of what was clearly "debris" from the uterus. She will turn 21 days on 01/09/2020. I have very low expectations that the breeding will achieve a conception.
She had a definite bloody discharge at the end of this heat cycle. Hopefully cleaned out now, so we can try one more time

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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Bright Raven » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:09 am

Hpacres440p wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:03 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:21 am
Hpacres440p wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:27 pm


She did retain partial placenta for about a week
If the uterus is still in the process of clearing debris, getting a pregnancy is not likely. I have one now that aborted at 7 months into gestation in mid-October. I AI bred her at 8:00 am on Friday 12/19/2019. The manipulation of her cervix during the process of insemination disturbed some remaining debris in her uterus. I went out to observe her at noon. She had a discharge of what was clearly "debris" from the uterus. She will turn 21 days on 01/09/2020. I have very low expectations that the breeding will achieve a conception.
She had a definite bloody discharge at the end of this heat cycle. Hopefully cleaned out now, so we can try one more time
Please don't confuse a bloody discharge (metestrus bleeding, there is a thread on that::: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=121626 ) with cleaning the uterus. If it was a clean bloody discharge after her heat, that is normal.

Here is a metestrus bleed off.
Image
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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Hpacres440p » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:56 am

It was the same as this. So basically, can take a chance at rebreeding her, preg check at 45 day’s and if not bred, ship her is what I’m concluding. ( I know many wouldn’t have even given a second chance). Would vet palp be able to determine uterine issues or is that a worthless trip?

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Re: Rebreeding after abortion/bull effect

Post by Bright Raven » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:00 am

Hpacres440p wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:56 am
It was the same as this. So basically, can take a chance at rebreeding her, preg check at 45 day’s and if not bred, ship her is what I’m concluding. ( I know many wouldn’t have even given a second chance). Would vet palp be able to determine uterine issues or is that a worthless trip?
I bet she takes on the next breeding. Let's be optimistic. Personally, I would breed her on her next heat and not worry about a vet check. I also don't see any need to think about shipping yet.

A big positive you have going is you ran an antibody test and she came back clean except for vaccination titers.
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