Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

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Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:01 pm

I've been harping on this subject ad nauseam for quite a while, and many say to me "your cows are fat" or "they are too obese to function"

I also hear "well my calves look a little weak this year, must have been the bad winter" No, more like lack of nutrition.

At the present my current calf crop looks better than ever, they are all mini tanks, with unbelievable vigor.

Why? It's because I fed the mommas the best I could put in them.

I'm glad some people, namely Angus, who tend to be cutting edge anyway, have addressed this issue. Here is the link to a new video they posted on Youtube. It's short and to the point.

http://bit.ly/2PyLGhx


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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Redgully » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:21 pm

But....too much of a good thing.

The argument could also go cattle that are treated poorly and thrive are what you want and there is an argument in parts this is how genetics should be selected. There is always different ways to look at it. I am a small operator so my cattle get fed well but i don't dismiss others ideas also.

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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Red Bull Breeder » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:41 pm

My cows made it pretty good on hay this winter. Calves are strong and growing.

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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by True Grit Farms » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:06 pm

Good nutrition definitely plays a major role in weaning weights. My calves are looking and growing great but that should change by June 1st. We're in a bad drought and the oats, ryegrass and clover is beginning to play out. But I'm sure they'll all weigh between 450 and 600 Ibs in 8 months. The calves won't see any feed or supplements till we bunk train and condition them for the last 45 days.
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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Caustic Burno » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:08 pm

True Grit Farms wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:06 pm
Good nutrition definitely plays a major role in weaning weights. My calves are looking and growing great but that should change by June 1st. We're in a bad drought and the oats, ryegrass and clover is beginning to play out. But I'm sure they'll all weigh between 450 and 600 Ibs in 8 months. The calves won't see any feed or supplements till we bunk train and condition them for the last 45 days.
That’s a typo of 450 at 8 months right?
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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Bright Raven » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:10 pm

My observations of cattle over 68 years:

Cattle that are fed poorly - look poorly.

Cattle that are fed goodly - look goodly.

It is not that complicated.
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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by kentuckyguy » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:33 pm

I agree with feeding them well but you can’t help but notice those cows that raise some of the biggest calves all while maintaining their body condition.

That’s the kind of Cow that I prefer. I do supplement while mine are eating hay and nursing calves but my choice of replacements is pretty strongly based off of the cows that perform on lower inputs.

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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Richnm » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:52 pm

Maybe everyone should stop worrying about WW , and YW since they don’t feed thier cows anyway. I totally agree with Brookhill, unlimited feed. YW and WW will be <0 without enough feed. If you want to starve your cows get Corrientes.
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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by True Grit Farms » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:21 pm

Caustic Burno wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:08 pm
True Grit Farms wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:06 pm
Good nutrition definitely plays a major role in weaning weights. My calves are looking and growing great but that should change by June 1st. We're in a bad drought and the oats, ryegrass and clover is beginning to play out. But I'm sure they'll all weigh between 450 and 600 Ibs in 8 months. The calves won't see any feed or supplements till we bunk train and condition them for the last 45 days.
That’s a typo of 450 at 8 months right?
Nope that's just telling it like it is for our spring born calves. I have 10 calves from heifers that weigh less 900 lbs. I breed my heifers early trying to keep them on the smaller side once they mature. Our fall calves will be 75 to 100 lbs larger because we supplement them. But they won't net anymore money, 450 to 550 lbs is the sweet spot to sell calves around here. We're finally getting our commercial cattle where we want them. CB, you know the deal, it's not how much you make, it's how much you keep that matters.
If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Nesikep » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:42 pm

I don't mind if the cow loses some condition while she's milking if the calf is growing well.. as long as she regains it after weaning and is in good shape for the next one.

This year I broke down and bought a molasses/protein tub for the yearling heifers and first timers, they can use it, but at $180 a tub I don't see how anyone can make those things pencil out for a herd
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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Brookhill Angus » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:51 am

Nesikep wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:42 pm
I don't mind if the cow loses some condition while she's milking if the calf is growing well.. as long as she regains it after weaning and is in good shape for the next one.

This year I broke down and bought a molasses/protein tub for the yearling heifers and first timers, they can use it, but at $180 a tub I don't see how anyone can make those things pencil out for a herd
It pencils out when it comes to increased fertility

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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Nesikep » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:24 am

Show me how it pencils out.. 3 heifers and 3 cows are going to eat that tub in a month.. so if I wanted to feed it to my herd of only 20ish cows, I'd be going through 4 tubs a month or nearly $500 USD x 12 = $6K per year just for lick tubs, then there's still salt, hay, vaccines, tags and all that
It absolutely doesn't pay except if you have some specific animals that need a boost.

If the typical cow you have can't make it on the feed you have, you've got the wrong type of cow. Of course every cow will do better with more feed, but that doesn't equate to more profit.
Yes, they need to be well fed before/during breeding, but they don't need to be at a BCS of 6 all year

Here's how I like a yearling (16 months or so) heifer to look
Image

Cow in the middle of winter
Image

Her momma in the fall, She could use some more fat but she regained it between weaning and winter
Image

Her steer calf
Image
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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by wbvs58 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:23 am

Nesi, is that a prototype of one of BH's Moocall collars on that heifer?

Ken

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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by Nesikep » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:27 am

wbvs58 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:23 am
Nesi, is that a prototype of one of BH's Moocall collars on that heifer?

Ken
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Re: Fetal Programming beef cows. If you don't feed them, don't expect much...

Post by True Grit Farms » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:31 am

Brookhill Angus wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:51 am
Nesikep wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:42 pm
I don't mind if the cow loses some condition while she's milking if the calf is growing well.. as long as she regains it after weaning and is in good shape for the next one.

This year I broke down and bought a molasses/protein tub for the yearling heifers and first timers, they can use it, but at $180 a tub I don't see how anyone can make those things pencil out for a herd
It pencils out when it comes to increased fertility

Fertility is a heritable trait, around here our cows calve within one year or their gone. Brookhill a lot of things you post make it sound like there's a fertility issue in your herd? I mentioned this when you first came on CT, you said you had a cow AI'd five times and the bull ended up getting her bred. If you keep giving second chances and making excuses to not cull, you can end up with fertility issues. We have a favorite older cow that lost her calf May 7th. I called her bred when we were working cattle. So against my better judgment we kept her and she hasn't had a calf yet. Those big brown eyes my wife has, clouds my decision making process. So far about 98% of our sorry, mismanaged, malnourished calves make it to the trailer in their lifetime.

If we'd of know this we'd of picked our own cotton.

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