Theoretical Question.

Got a calving or breeding question? Get an answer.
gcreekrch
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:51 pm
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 298 times

Theoretical Question.

Post by gcreekrch » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:15 pm

Is the start of first cycle determined by calendar due date or when the first calves start falling out?


Vaccinations, cheaper than whiskey. ;-)

User avatar
TennesseeTuxedo
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 13724
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:49 pm
Location: Live in Franklin, TN farm in Warsaw, KY
Has thanked: 686 times
Been thanked: 598 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:17 pm

Calves falling out.

My guess anyway.
Making Cattle Today Great Again!
Sometimes you do have to throw out the babies with the bath water.

User avatar
TCRanch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 3905
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Winfield, KS
Has thanked: 522 times
Been thanked: 245 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by TCRanch » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:07 pm

I'd go with calves falling out. The gestation calculator/calendar due date is rarely accurate - at least in my experience.

User avatar
snoopdog
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:16 am
Location: ne oklahoma
Has thanked: 377 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by snoopdog » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:40 pm

I agree with calf out.
Being poor is the most expensive thing there is

User avatar
Son of Butch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6138
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:44 pm
Location: Frost Bite Falls, Minnesota
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 314 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by Son of Butch » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:36 pm

Tricycles are the most popular first cycle and if calves are falling out rather than being pushed then
an investigation is in order. As for calendar theoretically it could depend; are you using a Myan, or
is Canada still on the Jullian? If Gregorian is it a leap year?
So many variables.... but glad I could help. :tiphat:

gcreekrch
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:51 pm
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 298 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by gcreekrch » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:50 pm

Son of Butch wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:36 pm
Tricycles are the most popular first cycle and if calves are falling out rather than being pushed then
an investigation is in order. As for calendar theoretically it could depend; are you using a Myan, or
is Canada still on the Jullian? If Gregorian is it a leap year?
So many variables.... but glad I could help. :tiphat:

Is there a possible grant for research that we could share?

I believe Canada is at present on the Robin Hood calendar where our federal leader takes from all and gives to himself and his cronies. Maybe that is why I am questioning this theory. ;-)
Vaccinations, cheaper than whiskey. ;-)

User avatar
Nesikep
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 14727
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:37 pm
Location: Lillooet, BC, Canada
Has thanked: 597 times
Been thanked: 458 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by Nesikep » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:37 pm

I've figured my average gestation to be 288 days, though 283-295 is common... This year the first calf came right smack on the due date.. I go by due date. Had my last calf last night, big bull calf, 298 days gestation. they all bred in the first 2 cycles.. 50 day calving season this year, best in a long time, always had a straggler here or there... Hector was on top of things.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
-Christopher Hitchens

W.B.
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:21 pm
Location: SD
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by W.B. » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:21 am

We only have breeding dates on our ai bred heifers. Less than 5% make it 280 days.

gcreekrch
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:51 pm
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 298 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by gcreekrch » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:39 am

We only have turnout days for bulls.
Vaccinations, cheaper than whiskey. ;-)

User avatar
lithuanian farmer
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1508
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Europe, Lithuania
Has thanked: 107 times
Been thanked: 121 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by lithuanian farmer » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:28 am

Know almost all cows due dates, AI and bull bred. Count 285days as a due date, but gestations here were from 270 up to 303days, so there is a wide range of time. However, herd average is around 285-288days.

User avatar
Silver
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:08 am
Location: BC Peace River country
Has thanked: 559 times
Been thanked: 493 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by Silver » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:18 pm

I've read a few scholarly articles that claim that the start of the first cycle should be determined by date of the successful 3rd mature cow having a viable calf.

gcreekrch
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:51 pm
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 298 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by gcreekrch » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:57 pm

Silver wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:18 pm
I've read a few scholarly articles that claim that the start of the first cycle should be determined by date of the successful 3rd mature cow having a viable calf.
That makes a fair bit of sense. Hard to judge by the few early premies and the heifers if they are bred to light BW bulls. In this case, we started April 4, 7 days earlier that the gestation table states.
Vaccinations, cheaper than whiskey. ;-)

User avatar
Nesikep
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 14727
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:37 pm
Location: Lillooet, BC, Canada
Has thanked: 597 times
Been thanked: 458 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by Nesikep » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:50 am

That will depend on the herd size... if you have 10 cows or 1000 it would really change things.. though the idea sounds alright.. I'd say typically if the mature cows are in the swing of it on a large herd that would be a good starting point.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
-Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
Silver
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:08 am
Location: BC Peace River country
Has thanked: 559 times
Been thanked: 493 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by Silver » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:01 am

I read an article where over 400 cows were ai'd on the same day to calve Mar 1. 18% calved prior to March 1, and I think the last one calved around Mar 21.
I'll try to find the article, quite interesting to me.
Last edited by Silver on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Silver
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:08 am
Location: BC Peace River country
Has thanked: 559 times
Been thanked: 493 times

Re: Theoretical Question.

Post by Silver » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:04 am


Post Reply