Hi Tensile question

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callmefence
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Re: Hi Tensile question

Postby callmefence » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:23 pm

artesianspringsfarm wrote:
Farm Fence Solutions wrote:The width of your box brace is where the strength is derived, assuming that the brace posts are the proper size, and properly set in the ground. At least 2 and a half times the height of the fence is a good rule to follow with HT wire, and the less angle on your brace wire, the better. The horizontal strut should be placed at 2/3 the height of the highest wire. We generally run on a single 10' or single 12' brace, but do use a double H once in a while. We use a 10'x8" for the end/corner post, and an 8'x7" for the second post with a 4-5" diameter horizontal strut. On the high side of your brace wire, simply line it up with your horizontal strut, and it will help to keep your corner or end from heaving. That's where the width comes into play to keep the angle of your brace wire a little less steep. The easiest brace wire to use is 5/32" galvanized aircraft cable with a large Gripple. I just happen to know a fella that sells a quick brace pretty cheap. Of course, some areas of the world have conditions that dictate other methods.


I appreciate everyone's comments. I think Callmefence identified my main issue right off the bat. I use a postpounder but we have a shelf of rock thats 30-36" down and that is just as deep as is reasonably possible here. What I see happen on some gates with an H brace and fence running the other way is that the bottom of the post close to the gate starts to wobble after a few years of swinging. I generally put my horizontal in at 54" and my top line is 60". You are saying thats too high? Also, I use 6-8" pine posts for main beams, 4-5" for horizontal, would going up one size really help my problem? What would you guys do if 30" is all the depth you can reasonably get? I use 8' posts since I can only get 30" in the ground anyway.

One more question. I just use 12.5 wire for my brace. I just started using a gripple instead of a strainer and love it but why should I consider using cable instead of wire, other than maybe a little faster?
You

You just can't get a worse deal than a couple of feet of heavy soil on top of bedrock. (unless you mix in some tree roots) it's just a bytch.
Rock drills bog down in dirt , rock augers wanna walk , and you can't drive em deep enough. Pipe makes it easier, but I know that's not what your dealing with.
If you can't get the equipment, like farm hinted your gonna have to get creative.

I pulled up alot of old cedar braces built like greybeards. Built all with hand tools long ago. after setting the post as deep as They could get. They had dug about a 18" wide buy 12 " deep trench the length of the brace encompassing both post and filled it with concrete.
Not a recommendation....but a example.
Whatever you do it's worth the effort . ..better than fighting a leaning brace, dragging gate and sagging fence the rest of your days. :bang:
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CaddoFarms
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Re: Hi Tensile question

Postby CaddoFarms » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:28 pm

I have been using 9 guage brace wire and wrapping it twice....is that overkill, can I do just one wrap? Other than that ive been building them like you described pretty much thanks to texas a&m's guide I followed.
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Re: Hi Tensile question

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:07 am

CaddoFarms wrote:I have been using 9 guage brace wire and wrapping it twice....is that overkill, can I do just one wrap? Other than that ive been building them like you described pretty much thanks to texas a&m's guide I followed.


That's not overkill. You'll get more strength/less stretch out of HT 12.5 gauge brace wire.......and it's cheaper.
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Farm Fence Solutions
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Re: Hi Tensile question

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:15 am

callmefence wrote:
artesianspringsfarm wrote:
Farm Fence Solutions wrote:The width of your box brace is where the strength is derived, assuming that the brace posts are the proper size, and properly set in the ground. At least 2 and a half times the height of the fence is a good rule to follow with HT wire, and the less angle on your brace wire, the better. The horizontal strut should be placed at 2/3 the height of the highest wire. We generally run on a single 10' or single 12' brace, but do use a double H once in a while. We use a 10'x8" for the end/corner post, and an 8'x7" for the second post with a 4-5" diameter horizontal strut. On the high side of your brace wire, simply line it up with your horizontal strut, and it will help to keep your corner or end from heaving. That's where the width comes into play to keep the angle of your brace wire a little less steep. The easiest brace wire to use is 5/32" galvanized aircraft cable with a large Gripple. I just happen to know a fella that sells a quick brace pretty cheap. Of course, some areas of the world have conditions that dictate other methods.


I appreciate everyone's comments. I think Callmefence identified my main issue right off the bat. I use a postpounder but we have a shelf of rock thats 30-36" down and that is just as deep as is reasonably possible here. What I see happen on some gates with an H brace and fence running the other way is that the bottom of the post close to the gate starts to wobble after a few years of swinging. I generally put my horizontal in at 54" and my top line is 60". You are saying thats too high? Also, I use 6-8" pine posts for main beams, 4-5" for horizontal, would going up one size really help my problem? What would you guys do if 30" is all the depth you can reasonably get? I use 8' posts since I can only get 30" in the ground anyway.

One more question. I just use 12.5 wire for my brace. I just started using a gripple instead of a strainer and love it but why should I consider using cable instead of wire, other than maybe a little faster?
You

You just can't get a worse deal than a couple of feet of heavy soil on top of bedrock. (unless you mix in some tree roots) it's just a bytch.
Rock drills bog down in dirt , rock augers wanna walk , and you can't drive em deep enough. Pipe makes it easier, but I know that's not what your dealing with.
If you can't get the equipment, like farm hinted your gonna have to get creative.

I pulled up alot of old cedar braces built like greybeards. Built all with hand tools long ago. after setting the post as deep as They could get. They had dug about a 18" wide buy 12 " deep trench the length of the brace encompassing both post and filled it with concrete.
Not a recommendation....but a example.
Whatever you do it's worth the effort . ..better than fighting a leaning brace, dragging gate and sagging fence the rest of your days. :bang:


I pulled(lots of digging first) a concrete dead man out a couple years ago on a fence job for an old timer.......My skid steer will pick up about 6k, and we had to put the crane on it as well to move it. After we got it out, I had to get the story on it. Ol' Jim tells me that he had two brothers and his dad worked at the gravel pit, so the only thing cheaper than mixing his own concrete was his labor. :lol:
On a side note, I've got a real dandy of a hill/rock job coming up in a month or so, and I'm thinking about tracking down some pipe to make life a tick easier. If any of you have a good source that is closer to Indiana than TX or OK, I'm all ears. It's hard to get from the local drillers, unless you're in the club.
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"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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Re: Hi Tensile question

Postby greybeard » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:57 am

Farm Fence Solutions wrote:
CaddoFarms wrote:I have been using 9 guage brace wire and wrapping it twice....is that overkill, can I do just one wrap? Other than that ive been building them like you described pretty much thanks to texas a&m's guide I followed.


That's not overkill. You'll get more strength/less stretch out of HT 12.5 gauge brace wire.......and it's cheaper.

I sometimes use 12.5 HT wire for brace wire myself. Sure cheap enough @ less than $120.00 per 4000' and 200K tensile, it works fine.
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Re: Hi Tensile question

Postby Farm Fence Solutions » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:35 pm

greybeard wrote:
Farm Fence Solutions wrote:
CaddoFarms wrote:I have been using 9 guage brace wire and wrapping it twice....is that overkill, can I do just one wrap? Other than that ive been building them like you described pretty much thanks to texas a&m's guide I followed.


That's not overkill. You'll get more strength/less stretch out of HT 12.5 gauge brace wire.......and it's cheaper.

I sometimes use 12.5 HT wire for brace wire myself. Sure cheap enough @ less than $120.00 per 4000' and 200K tensile, it works fine.


Be careful if your twisting that HT brace wire, Greybeard. I had a contractor friend that had to get a finger sewed back on after he lost his grip on the twist stick. Somehow, it unwound all the way, and that's when his finger got hung in the backlash. Makes my finger twitch just thinking about it. :cry2:
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"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison


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