Fescue

Discuss grasses and how to grow and harvest them.
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MrSmith
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Re: Fescue

Post by MrSmith » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:22 pm

kenny thomas wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:39 pm
I have clipped maybe 25 acres so far that hasnt had a cow on it since early April. Clipping the seedhead down to 10-12" and trying to get as little of the leaf as i can.
Do you have any issue with the tall stems aggravating their eyes? Pinkeye?
I recently clipped some of mine tall and had some concerns.



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Re: Fescue

Post by Hootowl » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:32 pm

MrSmith wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:22 pm
kenny thomas wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:39 pm
I have clipped maybe 25 acres so far that hasnt had a cow on it since early April. Clipping the seedhead down to 10-12" and trying to get as little of the leaf as i can.
Do you have any issue with the tall stems aggravating their eyes? Pinkeye?
I recently clipped some of mine tall and had some concerns.
I have not had any issues yet but they have been on the first paddock that I clipped for the last 2 days. I need to cut slightly lower maybe but it's been dry so I held the hog up high.
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

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Re: Fescue

Post by MrSmith » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 am

Thanks.
Also are you all harrowing or dragging after you clip?

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Re: Fescue

Post by Ebenezer » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:31 pm

MrSmith wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:22 pm
kenny thomas wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:39 pm
I have clipped maybe 25 acres so far that hasnt had a cow on it since early April. Clipping the seedhead down to 10-12" and trying to get as little of the leaf as i can.
Do you have any issue with the tall stems aggravating their eyes? Pinkeye?
I recently clipped some of mine tall and had some concerns.
We do not clip seedheads just to clip seedheads. One rotation is the cows eating seedheads plus what else they can get. I ran some on farm tests a few years ago and clipped some and left some unclipped. There was more regrowth in rotational grazing with the unclipped areas into dry periods and I assume the taller stems provide buffer to wind and sun while allowing plants to make better use of the dew. We have not had any pinkeye in 10+ years. Our environment is not the easiest so it is a learn to save or a way to spend situation. We run on a commercial type model.

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Re: Fescue

Post by kenny thomas » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:50 pm

MrSmith wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 am
Thanks.
Also are you all harrowing or dragging after you clip?
Never seen anyone do either here. For what reason would you do either?
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

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Re: Fescue

Post by Banjo » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:03 pm

If the residue is very thick.....it will roll up on you and you will just have rolled up wads of grass everywhere....not good.
If its thin you might could harrow some.
If you feel the need to drag it...do it before you clip. But there is no better way to learn what to do and not do than to just do it.

That's my opinion.....feel free to make it yours.

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Re: Fescue

Post by Banjo » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:08 pm

kenny thomas wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:50 pm
MrSmith wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 am
Thanks.
Also are you all harrowing or dragging after you clip?
Never seen anyone do either here. For what reason would you do either?
I think its mostly done to scatter manure piles.
My opinion is ....that if you have manure piles that won't breakdown then you have other issues that need to be addressed.

That's my opinion.....feel free to make it yours.

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Re: Fescue

Post by kenny thomas » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:49 pm

Banjo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:08 pm
kenny thomas wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:50 pm
MrSmith wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 am
Thanks.
Also are you all harrowing or dragging after you clip?
Never seen anyone do either here. For what reason would you do either?
I think its mostly done to scatter manure piles.
My opinion is ....that if you have manure piles that won't breakdown then you have other issues that need to be addressed.
I don't drag during the growing season. My cows are still squirting like it was April. It's a result of pasture rotation and high protein.
Even if the piles become firm the dung Beatles take care of them pretty quick in hot weather
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

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Re: Fescue

Post by Red Bull Breeder » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:28 am

Dragging spreads the piles kind of like spreading fertilize. I just use a tire drag.

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Re: Fescue

Post by TennesseeTuxedo » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:09 am

Red Bull Breeder wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:28 am
Dragging spreads the piles kind of like spreading fertilize. I just use a tire drag.
That’s a good practice.
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Re: Fescue

Post by MrSmith » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:18 pm

On the pastures I've been brush hogging, or even just clipping seed heads, I get windrows of residue that I'm afraid are smothering grass.

The only reason I'm clipping seedheads is I have a lot of tall fescue, and fall calving cows, and am worried about the fungus issues in their late pregnancy.

And mostly i have zero experience... :oops:

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Re: Fescue

Post by Hootowl » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:49 pm

MrSmith wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:18 pm
On the pastures I've been brush hogging, or even just clipping seed heads, I get windrows of residue that I'm afraid are smothering grass.

The only reason I'm clipping seedheads is I have a lot of tall fescue, and fall calving cows, and am worried about the fungus issues in their late pregnancy.

And mostly i have zero experience... :oops:
Clipping seedheads is a good thing. Look for the black rat turd looking seed heads will show for sure you have the fescue issue.
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT

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Re: Fescue

Post by Texasmark » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:38 am

Ebenezer wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:42 am
most of the old timers around here don't feed mineral, and some have really nice herds of commercial cows. They have culled cattle for years that didn't work, instead of propping them up with feed and minerals. I'm not saying that's the way to manage your herd, but I know it works. When did supplementing cattle with minerals become a management tool?
Grazing KY 31 fescue? Endophyte infected KY31 is a whole different animal than other grasses.

The mineral needs are largely based on the soils and the forages where you are or should be. Once you know or can tell by observations you know that they deliver the needed supplements to the cows. In KY 31 with endophyte, the endophyte apparently masks or can interfere with copper absorption. And I think it is copper that needs zinc in combo and in quantity to be utilized. Find a chart of the US that shows selenium status of the soils. That will also help you decide if you need maximum selenium as allowed by law. So it is not all easy science.

There are plenty of good minerals around but you need to learn to read tags and get what you want. We have a group that bulk orders from a regional manufacturer and get a high grade mineral for lot less than discussed here but it is not the cheapest either. You get what you pay for if you shop around and do not get hung up on a brand name. And a lot of the elements and such are based on China prices and sources in some cases.

The easiest way to know if your cattle need minerals are observations. Do 90% (or your threshold) of them breed back on time. Are black calves born with red hair coats? Do cows and calves shed later than you want? Do your cows live in the pond in the summer or only graze in the evening and at night? Do your cows lose hooves, tail switches, walk on tip toes, pant and struggle in the summer?

Opinions: I will not do injections on minerals. A waste of my time if all of my goals are met via loose minerals. This is an opinion also: some of the higher performance type cattle probably need more mineral inputs and higher quality to retain their honor. We see that in the dairy industry where minerals of the chelate form are widely toted along with the yeast source of selenium.

As some have said, find the cows that work for what you are willing to spend and either make money or have bragging rights. But we could not run cattle as economically here if we did not use decent minerals. As an old co-worker used to say, " Been there, done that".
"Are black calves born with red hair coats?"

Care to explain this one sir? Non KY-31 related. Questioning because second year Brangus "cows" are dropping what look to be first class Red Brangus calves in some instances. Know not the gene pool as these are "grade" animals but come from good stock, but some show small signs of black baldy genes (like a "blaze" on the forehead? Cows have access to mineral block and get 5-10# of 20% cubes every other day.....amount depends on who runs the fastest and eats the fastest at the feeder bunk. Pasture plentiful, not fertilized but a Legume here and there.

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Re: Fescue

Post by Banjo » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:37 am

Texasmark wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:38 am
Ebenezer wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:42 am
most of the old timers around here don't feed mineral, and some have really nice herds of commercial cows. They have culled cattle for years that didn't work, instead of propping them up with feed and minerals. I'm not saying that's the way to manage your herd, but I know it works. When did supplementing cattle with minerals become a management tool?
Grazing KY 31 fescue? Endophyte infected KY31 is a whole different animal than other grasses.

The mineral needs are largely based on the soils and the forages where you are or should be. Once you know or can tell by observations you know that they deliver the needed supplements to the cows. In KY 31 with endophyte, the endophyte apparently masks or can interfere with copper absorption. And I think it is copper that needs zinc in combo and in quantity to be utilized. Find a chart of the US that shows selenium status of the soils. That will also help you decide if you need maximum selenium as allowed by law. So it is not all easy science.

There are plenty of good minerals around but you need to learn to read tags and get what you want. We have a group that bulk orders from a regional manufacturer and get a high grade mineral for lot less than discussed here but it is not the cheapest either. You get what you pay for if you shop around and do not get hung up on a brand name. And a lot of the elements and such are based on China prices and sources in some cases.

The easiest way to know if your cattle need minerals are observations. Do 90% (or your threshold) of them breed back on time. Are black calves born with red hair coats? Do cows and calves shed later than you want? Do your cows live in the pond in the summer or only graze in the evening and at night? Do your cows lose hooves, tail switches, walk on tip toes, pant and struggle in the summer?

Opinions: I will not do injections on minerals. A waste of my time if all of my goals are met via loose minerals. This is an opinion also: some of the higher performance type cattle probably need more mineral inputs and higher quality to retain their honor. We see that in the dairy industry where minerals of the chelate form are widely toted along with the yeast source of selenium.

As some have said, find the cows that work for what you are willing to spend and either make money or have bragging rights. But we could not run cattle as economically here if we did not use decent minerals. As an old co-worker used to say, " Been there, done that".
"Are black calves born with red hair coats?"

Care to explain this one sir? Non KY-31 related. Questioning because second year Brangus "cows" are dropping what look to be first class Red Brangus calves in some instances. Know not the gene pool as these are "grade" animals but come from good stock, but some show small signs of black baldy genes (like a "blaze" on the forehead? Cows have access to mineral block and get 5-10# of 20% cubes every other day.....amount depends on who runs the fastest and eats the fastest at the feeder bunk. Pasture plentiful, not fertilized but a Legume here and there.
The local vet here told me that he gives multi min90 and draxxin for pink eye. He said....the U of Ky have tested cattle and found they were deficient in copper...even if they were on a good mineral.
Speaking of Legumes.....they say you need at least 20 to 30% clover in your pastures. I saw a picture of 30% clover and it looks like its almost solid clover. I then realized I don't have near enough clover.

That's my opinion.....feel free to make it yours.

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Re: Fescue

Post by Ebenezer » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:19 pm

Red calf coat is a sign of copper deficiency as hook said.

We talk a lot about forage, soil, minerals and animal response and or signs of deficiencies. What we sometimes overlook is the water quality. Water with a high sulfur content or other issues will do as much harm as the wrong minerals, the lack of minerals, ... I knew a hog farmer with scattered operations. Same hogs did terrible on a newly purchased farm. He was sure it was a pathogen so he cleaned, treated, restocked (feeders) and had the same problem. Finally he was told to check the water. Bingo.

Below discusses dairy cows but the same ideas for beef will work.
To ensure their dairy cattle are getting the correct amount of copper, nutritionists should take a water sample at least once per year to stay alert of potential antagonists, like iron or sulfates. Then, they should maintain a library of feedstuffs that includes trace mineral analysis for their dairies, instead of using book values. This will provide a reliable benchmark on where basal copper and antagonist levels are within a farm or region. When dietary molybdenum and sulfur levels are high, one may need to alter the previously mentioned recommendations. One way to do this is by maintaining a Copper:Molybdenum ration of 4:1, particularly when sulfur levels exceed 0.3 percent. As shown on the table below, when sulfur levels are closer to 0.2, this alteration is less necessary. Also, if diets are high in both molybdenum and sulfur, thus conditions are favorable for the formation of thiomolybdates, producers should consider providing a portion of the supplemental copper from a rumen available copper source to reduce absorption of thiomolybdates. Absorbed thiomolybdates will prevent absorbed copper from being metabolically available.
source https://essentialfeed.zinpro.com/2019/0 ... nutrition/

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