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Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:28 am
by sim.-ang.king
How many that say ya or nay to mineral have actually done a full spectrum soil test on all of there pastures and hay fields, along with a forage test on green grass and hay? We'll also throw a liver biopsy in there.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:41 am
by kenny thomas
sim.-ang.king wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:28 am
How many that say ya or nay to mineral have actually done a full spectrum soil test on all of there pastures and hay fields, along with a forage test on green grass and hay? We'll also throw a liver biopsy in there.
I have done the soil test and forage samples but not the liver. But wasn't looking for the mineral content. I have those results from last year I will look back at.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:45 am
by kenny thomas
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:00 am
kenny thomas wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 pm
If you don't mind me asking what do you spend on mineral per year on 20 cows? I'm trying to get a handle on cost per cow? Your grazing looks about like mine except I stockpile for the winter and they graze most of the winter.
How much does their intake change in the winter?
Here it is Kenny. I purchased 7 fifty pound bags of VitaFerm Concept Aid during calendar year 2018. This information was based on receipts in my tax expenses for feed. I include minerals as feed when I complete Schedule F.

This does not include cost of loose white salt. In accordance with VitaFerm, I put out loose white salt with the Vitaferm.

Thus, I put out a total of 350 pounds of VitaFerm mineral in 2018.

I have 20 head of cows. They calve in September/October. That figures to 20 head of mature cows and 20 head of calves. I keep most of the calves for at least a year from birth. I sell breeding stock. The bulls are kept for a year and leave the farm after a BSE. The heifers stay approximately 18 months and are either retained or sold as breds.

This is figured as 20 head and each calf is figured as a half head. Since some of the calves do not go all the way to the end of the year due mainly to culling of breeding stock, I rounded down to 26 head.

Thus, 26 head and 350 pounds equals an intake of approximately 13 pounds of mineral per head per year. That is .57 ounces per day.

What is not in these figures is WASTE. If you consider waste of mineral, probably only about .5 ounces is actually consumed.

Total cost at 36/bag- $252
Thank you!. I spend much of that much and don't have nearly as good of mineral. Im late on some calving this year and tested for BVD but that's not the reason.
Was about to decide it was the really hot weather combined with the fescue. May still be that but this gives me something to consider.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:47 pm
by sstterry
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:45 am
Thank you!. I spend much of that much and don't have nearly as good of mineral. Im late on some calving this year and tested for BVD but that's not the reason.
Was about to decide it was the really hot weather combined with the fescue. May still be that but this gives me something to consider.
Does Fescue affect fertility that much? We don't have much choice in these parts.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:31 pm
by Brookhill Angus
sstterry wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:47 pm
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:45 am
Thank you!. I spend much of that much and don't have nearly as good of mineral. Im late on some calving this year and tested for BVD but that's not the reason.
Was about to decide it was the really hot weather combined with the fescue. May still be that but this gives me something to consider.
Does Fescue affect fertility that much? We don't have much choice in these parts.
From everything I have researched and been told, YES, it does affect fertility. Hence the reason, management is key with the issue of fescue. While it's not always possible, keeping those pastures mowed low makes a difference in my opinion.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:33 pm
by Ebenezer
sstterry wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:47 pm
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:45 am
Thank you!. I spend much of that much and don't have nearly as good of mineral. Im late on some calving this year and tested for BVD but that's not the reason.
Was about to decide it was the really hot weather combined with the fescue. May still be that but this gives me something to consider.
Does Fescue affect fertility that much? We don't have much choice in these parts.
Yes. You will get zero breed back on the wrong genetics. Had a neighbor who brought in quite a few high dollar and high performance mature cows from a nationally known herd and he ended up shooting and burying a good number due to loss of hooves and such.

You can protect your herd with fall calving but you see the full effects of non adapted cows with spring calving and breeding back now. Many split calving herds are because of cattle that fall out in the spring and are saved for the fall. Br probably has a fall breeding schedule to tie to show cattle but he likely have more trouble with breeding in a spring program. Anything I say is not a bashing of northern cattle genetics only. Cattle developed south of us on bermuda and bahia forages (no fescue) also may not transition well to the fescue belt. Some of you probably remember the Graham Angus herd. Folks who bought very many would tell of some that would not do well or even die. It's cheaper to find the genetics that work and use the fescue with wisdom (dilution, winter and summer annuals, minerals, ...).

We have never tested need for minerals but we learned by doing and slowly trying options and saw elimination of foot problems, higher rebreeding, better performance, .... The fescue we sampled came back at 93% endophyte infected.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:40 pm
by Bright Raven
Ergot
Image

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:56 pm
by Ebenezer
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:40 pm
Ergot
Image
Which is different from endophytes as far as I know. Ergot can be on different species of grain. The Salem witchcraft trials are one example on grain consumed by humans from history, I believe.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:58 pm
by Bright Raven
Ebenezer wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:56 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:40 pm
Ergot
Image
Which is different from endophytes as far as I know. Ergot can be on different species of grain. The Salem witchcraft trials are one example on grain consumed by humans from history, I believe.
Ergot is a broad term used for the spore pods. This is a picture I just pulled up. It may not be endophyte but endophyte looks just like that.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:02 pm
by Bright Raven
Here is one that says fescue endophyte
Image

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:23 pm
by Fire Sweep Ranch
This is MY picture I took and sent to the extension. Notice the seed heads look like mouse poop:

Image

We are known to have the HOTTEST (infected) fescue around! The extension is right down the road from us, and they test their fescue often (for studies and such).

Ebenezer, funny you should mention the Graham Angus program. If it is the same, they sold out in the drought, I think 2012? We bought a cow calf pair online, because they were cheap. The cow made it ONE year before she shipped her for infertility, and the heifer calf on her side lasted just two calvings (she was a fescue cow for sure! Always in the pond, did not lose hair). We have a half blood cow, grandaughter from the orignal cow. She seems to be fine and throws an AI calf each fall. One of my best.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:35 pm
by Banjo
Logically thinking.....healthy soil=healthy forage=healthy animals.
I think I am on the fence sometimes between feeding expensive minerals or not just worrying about it. I can see True Grits point of view. If we run our cattle just like the Buffalo herds of yesteryear we have to remember that most of our soils today are not anywhere close to the pristine condition that they were a few hundred years ago ...especially the great plains before it had seen a plow.
If the truth was known...probably not all my cattle get much mineral. I don't know for sure and how would you know unless you had a camera on the mineral feeder 24/7.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:22 pm
by Silver
I would feed mineral if I had reason to.

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:27 pm
by kenny thomas
Silver wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:22 pm
I would feed mineral if I had reason to.
So you feel you don't have the need to use mineral?
Looking at your cows and calves and weaning weights it's hard to argue. But maybe you could wean at 800lb if you used the good mineral. :hide:

Re: Fescue

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:51 pm
by sim.-ang.king
kenny thomas wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:27 pm
Silver wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:22 pm
I would feed mineral if I had reason to.
So you feel you don't have the need to use mineral?
Looking at your cows and calves and weaning weights it's hard to argue. But maybe you could wean at 800lb if you used the good mineral. :hide:
According to BH if they ain't 900, they ain't nothin.