Neighbor sold calves

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Dave
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Neighbor sold calves

Post by Dave » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:44 pm

Neighbor B sold about 150 head of the bigger end calves direct to the feedlot. He got $1.48 for 650 pound steers weighed on his scale with a 1% shrink. They weighed them yesterday. The steers came in at 650 and the heifers at 630. I don't know what he got for the heifers. The feedlot made a deal for him to keep them until June at 80 cents a pound on the rate of gain between now and June. These Char cross calves should gain pretty well.
He did say something about the light heifers on hay now selling for $1.34 for August delivery. I have to quiz him on that because my heifers would sure fit in on that. And a $1.34 in August when I paid $1.33 in November works like a slot machine for me.



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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by Nesikep » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:06 pm

that sounds alright indeed!
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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by bird dog » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:30 pm

Weighed on his scale with a 1% shrink is very fair to the seller. Thats the way it should be with a lot of trust between buyer and seller. Folks that ship to scales somewhere down the road and then they get a deduct of 2% after that don't realize how much they are giving away. My rinky dink load of 640 lb steers sold at OKC two weeks ago for $1.44. They only shrunk 1% but I had a feed bill for the two days on the yard. I wish I could sell farm direct but no one will pay what I want when sale barn calves are .20 lb cheaper.

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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by Dave » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:06 pm

bird dog wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:30 pm
Weighed on his scale with a 1% shrink is very fair to the seller. Thats the way it should be with a lot of trust between buyer and seller. Folks that ship to scales somewhere down the road and then they get a deduct of 2% after that don't realize how much they are giving away. My rinky dink load of 640 lb steers sold at OKC two weeks ago for $1.44. They only shrunk 1% but I had a feed bill for the two days on the yard. I wish I could sell farm direct but no one will pay what I want when sale barn calves are .20 lb cheaper.
And he was saying that to compare that to 4% commission at the sale barn, the cost to haul them to the sale, and shrink and feed at the barn that this made a great deal for him. Add those costs on and he would have to get $1.55 or more to pocket the same amount. Cattle are selling well up here but not $1.55 for 650 pound steers.
A few weeks ago I had calculated the value of gain on taking 450 pound heifers to 800 pounds. I used the prices paid that day at a local sale yard. I came up with $0.83 per pound. So his $0.80 a pound to hold them until June is sure in the ball park. I am certain that these big soggy Char cross calves will grow.

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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by bird dog » Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:45 am

Yeah Dave that 4% is a killer. Its another thing folks just chalk up as the cost of doing business. It doesn't have to be.

Back in 2014 when calf prices spiked up it was costing $60 a head to sell 700 lb'ers at a sale barn. A sale barn selling 1000 head was making a cool 25K extra per week. That's what originally drove me to the OKC market where the charge is a flat rate instead of a percentage. The savings back then paid for most of my freight and even today pays about 1/4 of it.

I ask a local feed out guy about buying my pre-con calves before I shipped the last bunch but he had no interest at my price. They just won't pay for your work in this area. I guess you can't blame them with so many small timers willing to take the beating and shrink loss that goes with selling at the barns. For the buyers, its an easy quick 8% calf weight gain just to get them home and put on fresh water and sweet feed. The seller gives up $50 per head to the buyer and $30 per head to the barn.

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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by Dave » Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:46 pm

That is two of the reasons I figured out how to put together enough to sell on Superior. The commission was 2% rather than 4%. And although I never had a scale they would weigh on the truck. If you handle them easy while loading the majority of the shrink ends up on the floor of the truck and gets weighed too. Oh, the buyer pays for the hauling too. It probably doesn't sound like a lot to some people but those pennies do add up.

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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by snoopdog » Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:10 pm

bird dog wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:45 am
Yeah Dave that 4% is a killer. Its another thing folks just chalk up as the cost of doing business. It doesn't have to be.

Back in 2014 when calf prices spiked up it was costing $60 a head to sell 700 lb'ers at a sale barn. A sale barn selling 1000 head was making a cool 25K extra per week. That's what originally drove me to the OKC market where the charge is a flat rate instead of a percentage. The savings back then paid for most of my freight and even today pays about 1/4 of it.

I ask a local feed out guy about buying my pre-con calves before I shipped the last bunch but he had no interest at my price. They just won't pay for your work in this area. I guess you can't blame them with so many small timers willing to take the beating and shrink loss that goes with selling at the barns. For the buyers, its an easy quick 8% calf weight gain just to get them home and put on fresh water and sweet feed. The seller gives up $50 per head to the buyer and $30 per head to the barn.
Yep, when I was buying off the farm, I always offered the state average for top quality calves, some saw the profit and some didn't.
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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by Stocker Steve » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:41 am

[quote="bird dog" For the buyers, its an easy quick 8% calf weight gain just to get them home and put on fresh water and sweet feed. The seller gives up $50 per head to the buyer and $30 per head to the barn.
[/quote]

How long of a stand are you assuming for 8% shrink?
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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by bird dog » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:08 am

Merry Christmas Steve
What I have found is that is about average on a normal sale barn trip from a unweaned calf in normal weather taken to the sale barn mid-morning the day of the sale and with the calf selling between 5 and 7 PM.

This is from a calf weighed right off the mom and/or pasture. They will lose about 3% gathering, sorting and loading as they dump their stomach contents. Another 1% per hour of travel time. For me the sale barn is 45 miles. They then lose another 3 to 5% at the barn being unloaded and commingled in a large pen where they walk a lot and bawl. Water is available but not much is taken in even when they stick their head in it. They are to nervous to take a good long drink.

There are a lot of variables. Weaned calves in the above scenario will be a about 5%. Hot weather adds another 2%, Take them the night before adds another 2%+ shrink even if they have access to hay. Fat juicy calves lose a little more, thin calves a little less. Very rarely when conditions are just right will you get shrink less than 5%. In hot weather on a big sale day stress goes up and you are going to have some go over 10%. If you can take them in late in the day to where they will sell within an hour or so will save you a bundle.

I did an experiment last spring where I penned some weaned calves the day before a sale. They were on hay and fresh water. I gave them about 5lbs of creep per head that morning then loaded and shipped them about 2 pm. They sold about 5. The shrink on these ranged from 2 to 6 with average about 4%.

What I have concluded and I guess is just common sense is that the lack of water is the biggie when it comes to shrink loss. The pee a couple times and you lose 20 lbs and this shrink doesn't stay on the bottom of the trailer if you are trailer weighing. Then you add in what the lose from tissue and the rumen and it adds up quickly but can be put back on just as fast.

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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by Stocker Steve » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:14 am

Bought some cows last week that looked a little empty. Trucker did not deliver till the following morning. Took about a week to get their fill back. Must have gained 100# per head.
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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by bird dog » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:45 am

You are probably correct on the 100 lbs. A big ole skittish cow will drop 80 lbs easily.
When I have some packer cows ready to go in they get the same treatment as the calves. Pen them the night before with some good hay for them to fill up on, a few lbs of cubes before we leave. The sell I go to starts the weigh cows first at around 11:30. I have learned that if I get there around 12 they won't even pen them at the sale. They run them right down the alley and into the tub that pushes them into the ring. I can get these girls down to about 3% shrink with this method.

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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by Nesikep » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:10 pm

5% shrink on a 500 lb calf is only 25 lbs... very easily conceivable!.. add in commission, and per-head fees

I'd love to find a place to ship my calves to directly
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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by Jeanne - Simme Valley » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:19 pm

Nesi - can you contact previous buyers?
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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by gcreekrch » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:07 pm

Nesikep wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:10 pm
5% shrink on a 500 lb calf is only 25 lbs... very easily conceivable!.. add in commission, and per-head fees

I'd love to find a place to ship my calves to directly
If I feed calves again next year I will buy them. How they perform will dictate whether I become a repeat buyer. I do pay more for calves that have been vaccinated and shrink is an issue. A full calf bought at $170 when shrunk 4 or 5% can actually cost $1.90.
Vaccinations, cheaper than whiskey. ;-)

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Re: Neighbor sold calves

Post by gcreekrch » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:17 pm

bird dog wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:08 am
Merry Christmas Steve
What I have found is that is about average on a normal sale barn trip from a unweaned calf in normal weather taken to the sale barn mid-morning the day of the sale and with the calf selling between 5 and 7 PM.

This is from a calf weighed right off the mom and/or pasture. They will lose about 3% gathering, sorting and loading as they dump their stomach contents. Another 1% per hour of travel time. For me the sale barn is 45 miles. They then lose another 3 to 5% at the barn being unloaded and commingled in a large pen where they walk a lot and bawl. Water is available but not much is taken in even when they stick their head in it. They are to nervous to take a good long drink.

There are a lot of variables. Weaned calves in the above scenario will be a about 5%. Hot weather adds another 2%, Take them the night before adds another 2%+ shrink even if they have access to hay. Fat juicy calves lose a little more, thin calves a little less. Very rarely when conditions are just right will you get shrink less than 5%. In hot weather on a big sale day stress goes up and you are going to have some go over 10%. If you can take them in late in the day to where they will sell within an hour or so will save you a bundle.

I did an experiment last spring where I penned some weaned calves the day before a sale. They were on hay and fresh water. I gave them about 5lbs of creep per head that morning then loaded and shipped them about 2 pm. They sold about 5. The shrink on these ranged from 2 to 6 with average about 4%.

What I have concluded and I guess is just common sense is that the lack of water is the biggie when it comes to shrink loss. The pee a couple times and you lose 20 lbs and this shrink doesn't stay on the bottom of the trailer if you are trailer weighing. Then you add in what the lose from tissue and the rumen and it adds up quickly but can be put back on just as fast.
I weighed a steer out of the pen several years ago tick full. It is a four hour trip to the sale barn from here, unloaded and he sold four hours later. He went from 840 to 760 in those eight hours.

We sold two loads of cattle a couple springs back, kill cows and heifers were SHRUNK. Got big money for them. The little bunch of steers came in and it was obvious they had found feed and water both. They almost had the first bunch sold when I asked the auctioneer to do a pencil shrink of 5% in the ring. That little effort netted me an extra $200 per head from what they would have been priced at. Best to know the game and play it well. Most of us are very good at what we do at home but are collectively very poor at marketing.
Vaccinations, cheaper than whiskey. ;-)

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