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Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:41 am
by bball
Ron, your post prompts the consideration that while we are competing in a global market, and standard of living is a major factor; however, the bigger factor maybe the unique challenges a "capitalist" economy faces when competing against other economies that are more socialist(state owned or financed). If you read the history of JBS, for example, their rise is amazing. Backed by a National bank, JBS's success was paramount for the success of Brazil. China is yet another glaring example.

The government can not fix that? Their policies are actually making it worse one could speculate.
Everything in nature seeks equilibrium. How is this happening economically today? The American standard of living is declining as the rest of the world standard of living improves. Inevitable.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:54 am
by bball
Another thought; everything in nature seeks equilibrium is a scientific axiom. However, does it also apply to economics? It seems actually the opposite is true. The majority of financial wealth is held by a very small number of people.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:56 am
by Bright Raven
bball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:41 am
Ron, your post prompts the consideration that while we are competing in a global market, and standard of living is a major factor; however, the bigger factor maybe the unique challenges a "capitalist" economy faces when competing against other economies that are more socialist(state owned or financed). If you read the history of JBS, for example, their rise is amazing. Backed by a National bank, JBS's success was paramount for the success of Brazil. China is yet another glaring example.

The government can not fix that? Their policies are actually making it worse one could speculate.
Everything in nature seeks equilibrium. How is this happening economically today? The American standard of living is declining as the rest of the world standard of living improves. Inevitable.
The government cannot drive economics. They can certainly influence it but the real gorilla in the room is the discrepancy in standard of living. Until the world reaches a level playing field in standard of living, the government has influence but at the end of the day, it cannot change world economies.

I think there will be a lot of disappointment, suffering and pain until the world reaches that "equilibrium".

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:02 am
by Bright Raven
bball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:54 am
Another thought; everything in nature seeks equilibrium is a scientific axiom. However, does it also apply to economics? It seems actually the opposite is true. The majority of financial wealth is held by a very small number of people.
Economics does not fit that axiom. Regardless of what you call it, economics is more a function of human greed, corruption, and unfair practices. I don't think anyone or any government will stop that.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:16 am
by HDRider
Ron, I understand how you base your argument on "standard of living" and "government cannot fix economics".

I could go on for days about how government distorts markets. For example, how profit is taxed in other countries and in the US, disparity in environmental regulations allowing lower cost productions, same for labor and safety laws.

Gauging the bare minimum a worker will accepts does factor in "standard of living", it is called exploitation.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:24 am
by Bright Raven
HDRider wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:16 am
Ron, I understand how you base your argument on "standard of living" and "government cannot fix economics".

I could go on for days about how government distorts markets. For example, how profit is taxed in other countries and in the US, disparity in environmental regulations allowing lower cost productions, same for labor and safety laws.

Gauging the bare minimum a worker will accepts does factor in "standard of living", it is called exploitation.
In kind, I understand the influence of government and certainly governments worldwide influence the standard of living of their nations. Thus, we are somewhat on different paths.

My point is regardless of CAUSE and there are many, until and if ( big if) the standards of living balance, the US will continue to suffer a disadvantage competing against markets that can DO IT CHEAPER.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:07 am
by bball
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:24 am
HDRider wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:16 am
Ron, I understand how you base your argument on "standard of living" and "government cannot fix economics".

I could go on for days about how government distorts markets. For example, how profit is taxed in other countries and in the US, disparity in environmental regulations allowing lower cost productions, same for labor and safety laws.

Gauging the bare minimum a worker will accepts does factor in "standard of living", it is called exploitation.
In kind, I understand the influence of government and certainly governments worldwide influence the standard of living of their nations. Thus, we are somewhat on different paths.

My point is regardless of CAUSE and there are many, until and if ( big if) the standards of living balance, the US (producers/manufacturers)will continue to suffer a disadvantage competing against markets that can DO IT CHEAPER.
I modified your statement ;-)
Especially when our own govt sends millions of dollars to assist those already doing it cheaper. I am not for handouts; especially to the competition.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:13 am
by Bright Raven
bball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:07 am
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:24 am
HDRider wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:16 am
Ron, I understand how you base your argument on "standard of living" and "government cannot fix economics".

I could go on for days about how government distorts markets. For example, how profit is taxed in other countries and in the US, disparity in environmental regulations allowing lower cost productions, same for labor and safety laws.

Gauging the bare minimum a worker will accepts does factor in "standard of living", it is called exploitation.
In kind, I understand the influence of government and certainly governments worldwide influence the standard of living of their nations. Thus, we are somewhat on different paths.

My point is regardless of CAUSE and there are many, until and if ( big if) the standards of living balance, the US (producers/manufacturers)will continue to suffer a disadvantage competing against markets that can DO IT CHEAPER.
I modified your statement ;-)
Especially when our own govt sends millions of dollars to assist those already doing it cheaper. I am not for handouts; especially to the competition.
If the producers and manufacturers suffer, then it affects everyone. The economy is like a web. Pull on one thread and the whole web shakes.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:56 am
by bball
My modification was specific to my comment. Producers/manufacturers can not compete against markets doing it cheaper; especially when our own govt sends millions of dollars to assist those cheaper markets. That was the point I was trying to make with my modification and comment.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:22 am
by Bright Raven
bball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:56 am
My modification was specific to my comment. Producers/manufacturers can not compete against markets doing it cheaper; especially when our own govt sends millions of dollars to assist those cheaper markets. That was the point I was trying to make with my modification and comment.
Brad, we are all on the same page. Sometimes what appears to be a different perspective is only because of a broader or more fundamental comment.

Even with all of us in agreement, I don't see the path of the train being diverted. Economics takes on a path of it's own. But I can show you this.

Remember that last bull that I was saving for consignment to a sale? I think he is bigger since you seen him. About 14 months old.
Image

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:37 pm
by bball
He really has filled out in such a short time! I will try to get a decent pic of his buddy if the wind ever stops. Been blowing strong since early this am. Steady 30s with gusts upto 50mph. Nasty day out there today.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:46 pm
by Bright Raven
bball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:37 pm
He really has filled out in such a short time! I will try to get a decent pic of his buddy if the wind ever stops. Been blowing strong since early this am. Steady 30s with gusts upto 50mph. Nasty day out there today.
Wow. It is blowing some of my round bales apart.

I still think his buddy is going to be the better bull. Not that this one is not nice. BTW. He sold today. Guy will pick him up after the first of the year. So I will have to find something else to consign. I wish I could get that one heifer back. 🦊🐴🤗

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:24 pm
by TennesseeTuxedo
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:22 am
bball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:56 am
My modification was specific to my comment. Producers/manufacturers can not compete against markets doing it cheaper; especially when our own govt sends millions of dollars to assist those cheaper markets. That was the point I was trying to make with my modification and comment.
Brad, we are all on the same page. Sometimes what appears to be a different perspective is only because of a broader or more fundamental comment.

Even with all of us in agreement, I don't see the path of the train being diverted. Economics takes on a path of it's own. But I can show you this.

Remember that last bull that I was saving for consignment to a sale? I think he is bigger since you seen him. About 14 months old.
Image
He’s a regular yin and yang poster child.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:02 pm
by Bright Raven
TennesseeTuxedo wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:24 pm
Bright Raven wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:22 am
bball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:56 am
My modification was specific to my comment. Producers/manufacturers can not compete against markets doing it cheaper; especially when our own govt sends millions of dollars to assist those cheaper markets. That was the point I was trying to make with my modification and comment.
Brad, we are all on the same page. Sometimes what appears to be a different perspective is only because of a broader or more fundamental comment.

Even with all of us in agreement, I don't see the path of the train being diverted. Economics takes on a path of it's own. But I can show you this.

Remember that last bull that I was saving for consignment to a sale? I think he is bigger since you seen him. About 14 months old.
Image
He’s a regular yin and yang poster child.
I call him Crooked Cowboy. His sire is Cowboy Cut. He also reminds me of the Phantom of the Opera.

Re: You, as a producer

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:17 pm
by TennesseeTuxedo
I like the name Phantom.